El Solsonès en època d'Anníbal : el poblament ibèric a la zona durant el segle III aC (300-180 aC)

En els darrers 25 anys el Centre d'Estudis Lacetans està desenvolupant un projecte de recerca programada sobre l'estructura del poblament ibèric a la comarca del Solsonès. Això ha permès caracteritzar la seva evolució des de la primera edat del ferro fins al període ibèric tardà. Es constata que el segle III aC constitueix un moment àlgid, amb un elevat nivell de densitat i complexitat organitzativa. Tot apunta que en el territori lacetà es dóna un panorama de forta fragmentació política, amb diverses entitats territorials que s'organitzen al voltant de nuclis de primer ordre, com els de Sorba, Castellvell o el Cogulló, sense evidències clares d'una centralització similar a la dels territoris costaners.For the last 25 years, the Centre d'Estudis Lacetans has been developing a research project on the structure of the Iberian population in the Solsonès region. This has allowed to characterize its evolution from the first Iron Age to the late Iberian period. The work revealed that this area in the third century BC experienced a moment of maximum development, with a high level of density and organizational complexity. Evidence shows a strong political fragmentation, with several territorial entities that are organized around first order settlements, such as those of Sorba, Castellvell or Cogulló, not similar to the centralization that occurred in the coastal territories

Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Institute of Texan Cultures, May 1, 1993

Transcripts of community meetings conducted by the Institute of Texan Cultures as part of the Tejano Community Advisory Group.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES SUBJECT: Tejano Community Advisory Meeting DATE: 1 May 1993 PLACE: Institute of Texan Cultures MODERATOR: David LaRo Dennis ....., Toni ......., Bob ....... DL: ... seems to be working, so let's hope so. Put it there ... ..: ... talking ... DL: That'll help. That'll help. Sure. Okay. I ... as she said before, I'm an old retired person. About five or six years ago. I've been down here since then. I came in as a volunteer because my daughter, who's a school teacher, insisted that I come down here. And it's turned out to be interesting and consuming and very involving in a lot of ways. So ... I'm also a "people person," I like to talk. The hardest thing for me today, is going to be to shut up. So if I start to talk, I won't be offended if you just say "shhh" this is for us to talk. If I start, please stop me. We are limited as you saw and heard, as to space on the floor and time to do this and time today, there are limits. So we are going to try to share, give everybody a chance to say what they've got to say now. And we're going to start off, and I guess probably the best way is to just throw it open and see who would like to talk. David LaRo (Side A) 2 The first question we ask is - what is your initial reaction to the exhibit plans you just saw, the model you just saw? Who would like to address that first? Dennis? Dennis: Initial reaction was ... I don't know ... it's about time, actually. That's all I can say in terms of initial reaction to the model itself. I mean, there's a conceptual thing. I see ... there was a lot of talk about an exhibit being an end product. But I see an exhibit, because I worked in museums, as a process, as well as an end product. So I guess my initial reaction is that we have to be concerned with the process as well, not just the end product, and that things go along all the way. And that people are involved in the whole process. I've seen, like, you know, Boards and Commissions, Advisory Committees, Program Committees, docents, teacher trainings, development, contracting, all these kinds of things are considerations that go into the business of museum exhibitions. ..: But with regards to what you've seen, ... why don't you identify yourself? ... DL: It's not required. Unless, he'd like to. It's not required. .... ..: As you apply this to what we have seen, how would you change it? ... Dennis: Okay. Actually, I like the suggestions you made when you were up there. You had some very good, specific suggestions David LaRo (Side A) 3 about the shape of the plaza, for example. The look of ........ in the plaza. I had more responses to the things that people talked about. I have seen the model before and I think it needs to be changed, but I have, like, concerns in general before you get down to actually, you know, to me when you're doing the design that is sort of towards the end of the process and I'm concerned in terms of design with unintended effects as well as intentional effects. But you know, there's been a lot of things mentioned, I don't know at what point to bring it in or just start talking. For example, the maniquins, I really liked what the person was saying in terms of the maniquins looking like individuals. In fact, one of the best exhibitions I ever saw was of a Caribbean Festival, and not only did the maniquins look like people, but they were specific people. The curator actually picked out people along the way that they had contacted in the research and the maniquins were designed to look exactly like them. So, for example, Dora was in the Spanish Colonial period with a costume, but it was Dora, it was her physical type. DL: As a matter of fact, that has been discussed. Dennis: Yeah. (laughter) DL: We liked the idea, too. Dennis: Yeah. So that was really good. DL: I've got a list of questions I'm going to run down. If you'd like to continue where you're going ...... ask some David LaRo (Side A) 4 questions. Dennis: Yeah, go ahead, I want to hear ... DL: Let's give Toni a chance to say what's her initial reaction to the ... Toni: My initial reaction is just someone who doesn't have the expertise, but just a community person. I mean I am an historian in training. But my concern is especially with the more 20th century area and in trying to make sure that ... well, just that we show a lot of continuity at the same time so .... continuity with the past and making sure that we really show that it's okay to have a lot of difference and diversity within the community itself. And I'm curious ... is this ... I get the sense ... is this more San Antonio based or is this trying to reflect kinda like the whole state? DL: We ... our charter is really the whole state. Toni: The whole state. DL: Since we're here in San Antonio probably it's easier to do research and see people and get an ideas ... we're going to go .... whole state. Toni: Okay. Just ... I'm an historian, I just feel like you have to make sure a lot very important events and things that have happened are made very present in this exhibit. Design is a little hard for me to talk about, but I just want to make sure that it doesn't end up giving you a sense that everything has entirely come together and sorta been solved, all these David LaRo (Side A) 5 sort of past difficulties, and that we really show that we have continuing issues that are really very much related to our past. You know, that it is a continuing struggle. Those sort of issues. ..: My view is that ... very much in keeping with what everybody else has said. The ... I would like to see the continuity being much more fluid and I think that the exhibit itself, the structure itself, is going to have to be assisted by the photographs, as well as the videos. Because as it stands, the historical periods are fragmented and they flowed ... one historical period flowed into another and another to another. So that I think it would be ... attention needs to be paid by using more than one medium. More than just the structual media. That at the same time that they are constructing the structual media, that the photographic, the graphic and the video, contribute to the fluidity of one historic period flowing into the other. So that it's not fragmented, so that, you know, when you pass one brick, you stop being in the 1700s, you know, it's very difficult to bring about. DL: Something ... My idea, my impression is that's probably the way it's going to be because it's ...... ..: It's also very poorly lighted. So attention needs to be paid to the lighting, that space is very dark. Most of the lighting goes towards the walls, to the graphics on the walls and the center cases are in the shadows. So lighting the exhibit David LaRo (Side A) 6 is going to be very important. DL: .... yourself. By the way, we've had a person join us. Vonice: You all know. DL: This is Vonice, who was introduced earlier, but now Vonice is with us. Vonice: I'm just listening. ..: Okay. Okay. My initial reaction is that the elements that are difficult is - time, space and people, cultures versus history. You've got the 18th, 19th and 20th century to address. You've got the ...you've got two separate and then ... actually, three separate cultures that are blended into what we call Tejano. The flow, historically, I'm concerned that there will not be enough development of the foundation from which this evolution began, to give a contextual meaning to the present day Tejano, in that, if you notice, and I'll put this on record, the video ... it just happened to be a sampling of people that made mention of it, and Dora didn't mention one way of the other, but I know where her background comes from, not one person mentioned anything about their Spanish heritage blended in with their Mexican heritage. Okay. Now, and yet, the foundation of all that, we're saying we're here in San Antonio, well, obviously you know the 18th century implications of all that, the architecture and everything else. Now, if you're going to blend two flags, of Mexico and Spain, and we're not talking nationality, under the term "Mexican" or under the term David LaRo (Side A) 7 "Tejano," then you set the precedent here at the Institute to go out on the floor, because where there's a phrase used - "you're either Mexican or Anglo" in San Antonio, that's an overstatement. But let's talk about the word "Anglo." Does that mean that you're going to go out there on all of your exhibits for your English, your Scottish, your Welch, your Irish, and were do we go? Do you go ultimately to the Germanic countries? 'Cause we call them, quote, "Anglo" 'cause they're not Hispanic? Do we blend all those exhibits together and say, look what's happened in San Antonio after two centuries? In this case, we're addressing something that's addressing three centuries. Now, you're setting a precedent and is everybody up there on those individual cultural groups going to be happy with that? No. And what I'm saying by doing this up here, you're eliminating, not only two flags, and we're not talking about nationalities, I know that people flowed, we're still here, but you have an influx, for instance, the beginning, the Mexican revolution, the beginning of the 1900s, it's a totally different evolution, as when you had the evolution of the immigrants during Stephen F. Austin's time. 25,000 Texans and 3,000 to 4,000 Tejanos. ..: Okay, so synthesize that. ..: Okay, I'm saying that ... ..: So what you're saying is that ... ..: I'm saying is I don't ...David LaRo (Side A) 8 ..: ... not enough attention has been paid to ... ..: ... I think it's going to be a great imbalance the way it stands now and I hope that it will flow better so that each of them, as you reach the 20th century Tejano, they ... all their roots will be recognized. Equally. ..: Fully developed ... DL: I think what ... is saying is that we're going to have trouble blending two flags, Spanish and Mexican flag ... ..: Absolutely. Absolutely. DL: ... this area ..: Absolutely. For Instance, the book that came out, the one thing that we argued with ... not argued with ... the question, this one here, it's a great book, except, one premise, one premise is that this is about Mexican history, that was the bottom line. And I'm saying, wait a minute now, ... talking about 18th century Spaniards and the Mexicans, they all came to the same point to become Tejanos, how can I relate as the people that are Canary Islanders, who landed at Vera Cruz, did not live in Mexico as such, came through there to found this first city in Texas, they've been Spaniards ever since, yes, they intermarried with Mexicans that were here and others, but their heritage is not in Mexico, it's in Spain. And Spanish came even after the Texas Republic. It continued to come even though the smaller amounts. Are we going to eliminate that? Those things that you ... those artifacts are there are not David LaRo (Side A) 9 Mexican, they're Spanish. Some of them don't belong. ..: But I don't think that the statement was made that that was going to be removed. I think ... ..: Some ... yeah ... some are. ..: I think they are making statements about intergrating it. So as I ... from my understanding ... is that they are going to show ... Spanish period flowing into it's Mexican period, flowing into it's post-Mexican period and the emergence of the Tejano. Dennis: Actually ... let me make ... I want to also reiterate ... I think I have the same kind of concern that Mr. Benavides has with regard to our indigenous heritage. In other words, how is this going to relate ... we're melding cultures here, but of course, the relations with the Indian people was different at different times. The Mission Indians of San Antonio are different from the Commanches. And there were different historical periods, too. This melding or this Tejano identity did not come about in ... at the same time ... right, ... spontaneously, and then it happened ... ..: Very gradual ... Dennis: Yes. And so how are we going to relate this to the other parts. And also, I want to reiterate, Dora seemed to have a concern, which I share, about what historians called periodization. In other words, it seems loosely based, right now, on 17th, 18th and 19th ... 20th centuries, but see, that David LaRo (Side A) 10 really doesn't fit with what we know about our history because we don't fit neatly into century markers. You know, some of our important dates, for example 1845 - 1848, very important dates, 1910, the revolution, you know, maybe the first couple of hundred of there was some ... but then 50 years the changes are very great, so we need to pay more attention to what that periodization is, rather than just ... perhaps it is just because I don't know what the script or what the scholarship behind it is, but it would be ... how are we going to break it off, ... ..: Otherwise you wind up with ... well, the rough cut of the Alamo, I'm ... for giving a bad example, but the rough cut had pinatas in there. (laughter) ..: Had what? ..: Pinatas. ..: Oh. (laughter) ..: Oh, when the families left, the invading armies come and the families locality ... went to the ranchos, and they were going in carettas, they had a little girl about 9 or 10 years old and they were going down and she jumps off then she runs over there and they were going to have a party on this little table and she goes and grabs her five-pointed star, multi-colored, mercado pinata and puts it on there and they go on down the road. ..: ...David LaRo (Side A) 11 ..: And that was cut because it was so damn sterotypical, that's what'll happen when you blend it improperly. DL: Bob, let me ask you a question. You mention that we've got three cultures of blending, will you put names on those three cultures so ....... talking about. Bob: Okay. I'm saying, for instance, you had the indigenous people here, then you had the Spaniards, then you had the Mexicans. Okay. Now, within that, obviously the Mission ... Missionary Indians blended in once the ..... of course, were always independent, but ultimately they blended like the Missionary Indians, into the Spanish culture and became mestizos. Also, the ... many of the people who came up from Mexico, they were indigenous, that were mestizos themselves, came from Mexico to here. There was this blending of three different cultures at different levels. You can go down on Houston Street you can see people of different colorations and shapes and sizes, for that reason. Dennis: And let me complicate it even further, my great-great-great grandfather was German, who immigrated to Galveston, went to Mexico and then came back eventually after he was Mexicanized and plus around ..... you have a lot of African people who came, the Seminole Indians, the ........... We still have a community there ... ..: The diversity of the caste system alone. Dennis: Yeah. ....David LaRo (Side A) 12 ..: The caste system that existed was complicated. ..: I think it is going to be impossible for the Institute to physically be able to bring about all that. I think the effort is certainly going to be to give the nuances as much as possible using more than one media. Using the physical exhibit, using the photographs, using the videos, using the labels, the explanatory labels, and in ....... It's going to be ... it has to flow from the initial military settler ... the soldier-settler who preceded the Canary Islanders. Then ... and those people came from the states of Coahuilla and Nuevo Leon. And established the presidio. Then in the 1730s the Spanish and then the intermarriage between the Spanish and those presidiol settlement families that were already here that then flowed into the next and into the next and into the next. ..: ..... proving right in here as far as what's needed. You have one section here with maniquins - a friar and children, that's supposed to show the benevolent friar and the converted children. Of course, there were adults in that community inside the mission. Over here you have the vaquero artifacts case, showing, you know, of course, that the original ranching began here in Spain. But there is no Spanish Colonial military representation there. Because that was ... the presidio and the mission were the first two instituionalized elements here introduced prior to, like you say, the first civil settlement for San Antonio founded by these Canary Islanders. So you have David LaRo (Side A) 13 the civil, the muncipal, the military, and of course, your missionary which ultimately evolved into the population. So that needs to be represented, as she said, to show the people that did come up within the military presence in San Antonio. For that's the beginning of our whole military heritage in San Antonio. Going back to the beginning. ... DL: Yes. ..: ... Not just U.S military, but ... DL: There's some interesting stories in Jerry's book about the local military. Some fantastic stories. ..: Exactly. DL: I've lived here a long time and I've heard the cry for years - Save Kelly Field - and that's in there and in another language a hundred years younger. ..: ... we're talking the soldier, we talking three different communities, the military, the missionary, and the civic. DL: Yes. ..: And so that, the maniquins, the graphics, and the videos have to address those three communities. The fact that we had the soldier-settler, the military, that could be represented by either maniquins or videos or graphics or labels on the wall. The missionary and the civic, which then, because of the isolation, began merging and began intergrating and from that flows what we are today. So, I mean, the best we can do is jot down these things so that they can be intergrated.David LaRo (Side A) 14 Dennis: Actually, that raises the point ... because these are not brand new things that Dora is bringing up. These are ... this is knowledge that we have because of scholars who are working in the area. I mean like, David J. Weber's book, and who really points out the roots of Tejano culture and how that independent identity came about. ..: ..... ..: Sure. Dennis: Long before ... exactly, and so that might be good for us to know. I mean, it helped me to evaluate to know who those people are, what scholarship this is based on, 'cause that gives me a broader understanding then. Than just looking at this map, which I'm sure cannot commincate. DL: I would hope it would be based on the combined works of a lot of scholars, but if you've got a suggestion that you'd like to put in there, please do. Dennis: I'm sure we all could suggest many, but ... ..: I think the most important would be to change the shape of the plaza. ..: Yes. ..: Change the ... DL: Changing the shape of the plaza. Okay. ..: Yes. DL: We're already seeing the constraints that we're running into in the way of time, we have about 10 minutes and we've David LaRo (Side A) 15 gotten to the first of about 35 questions. ..: Okay. Dennis: 35! DL: Let me ask what I think is an important one. What 2 or 3 main points would you like to see this exhibit communicating? Let me start with you, .... What 2 or 3 main points would you like to see a visitor to the Tejano exhibit walk away with? ......... ..: Let's see ... well, I want to make sure it's not just a sense of contribution. I mean, that's an important aspect of history, yeah, but we've contributed, we're a part of society and you know, we've been excluded, but please, recognize that we've done some good things, but ... ..: Acknowledgement. ..: Yeah. Acknowledgment, that's one element, acknowledgment, but at the same time we also have, it's a painful history and it's a painful past, and we can't avoid the difficult aspects of it. We can't avoid the segregation and the separation and the violence that has been wrought upon the community over time. And so we have to make sure that we're not just presenting a happy museum picture, but that we're really showing ... you know, there were some very serious moments and questions that came up. When I think about, especially, you know, I do the 20th century one, when I think about the deportations during the Great Depression or things that happened in the '50s, you David LaRo (Side A) 16 know, operation ... it's called Operation Wetback. You know, bracero programs and things like that. I feel like we have to make sure that these important events and really questioning moments are dealt with in an important way. Because for me those particular events were really, for the community, times when there was a questioning of citizenship, you know, look, we've been here, we've contributed to the community and now we're being forced to leave, you know, what does this really mean? And I think even in the literature, I think, those questions, I mean, in the historical literature, sometimes those questions aren't raised in a very sharp and penetrating way. And so, we need to say, we had to demand it then and we continue to demand our rights of citizenship in this country. I think citizenship has meant different things for different people. You know, my grandfather is a Tejano and he, you know, was in World War II and in Korea and he's done, you know, I mean, contributed to this country and yet at the same time, you know, to see the things that have happened to your family, you think, what does this really mean? And I think we have to make sure that these elements are a part of it. ..: Do you know how that could be addressed? I think these are wonderful points. And as she is developing it, I'm thinking that that could be ... these issues covered wonderfully in a video. As a panel of 20th century Tejano and Tejana historians or just community people speaking their experience. And

Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Lubbock, Texas, Part 8, October 16, 1994

Transcripts of community meetings conducted by the Institute of Texan Cultures as part of the Tejano Community Advisory Group.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES Tejano Community Meetings INTERVIEW WITH: Armando Rodriguez, Antonio Romero, Lillie Carrillo, Sister Martha Molihan (Tape 1 of 2) DATE: 16 October 1994 PLACE: St. Joseph's Church, Lubbock, Texas INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo L: ...... Okay, my name is David LaRo, it is October 16th, 1994, and we're in Lubbock, Texas, and we're at St. Joseph's Church, and the Tejano Group interview is about to start. If you would please say your name in here ... just say Hi ... who you are ... .......... ....... San Antonio. Armando: My name is Armando Rodriguez and I'm in Lubbock, Texas. L: And we know who you are too ... but we're trying to get a few words. Antonio: My name is Antonio Romero and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, in St. Joseph's Parish. L: Thank you, Mr. Romero. LC: My name is Lillie Carrillo and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, at St. Joseph's Parish. MM: My name is Sister Martha Molihan and I'm in Lubbock, Texas, St. Joseph's Parish. L: Thank you. Just getting the voices on here for a few words makes it easier for the lady who has to sit and listen to this and transcribed it later. She gives me a hard time if she can't hear. Okay, we've talked about what we're doing here and why we're here. I guess the first thing I would like to ask is what ... if we re-do this exhibit and we come up with an exhibit called The Tejanos ... what would you like to see portrayed there? What one thing would you like to see there ... just personally? Okay ... if you like ... that leaves you thinking ... we'll move on and come back to you in a second. I don't want to forget it ......... What would you like to see portrayed in an exhibit like this? ..: Portrayed? L: What would you like to tell people through an exhibit like this? About the Tejanos? ..: Listen to it. So that ... I guess it's an educational ....... ... as far as I ... we know already. Like I asked the question ... you know ... awhile ago ... about the Tejanos ... why they came up ... L: Uh-huh. ..: ... but I'm a Texan ... I was born in Texas ... I was born in ............ ... L: Well, if there was one thing that you could tell people who come to a museum ... if 300,000 people a year come to see a museum and 150,000 go look at this exhibit ... what would you like the exhibit say to these people? What would you like to tell people about the Tejanos? Is there something that you'd like ... a message you'd like to pass along to them?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 3 ..: Like a .......... LC: Like your religion or ...... ..: ........... ..: .............. L: Well, we can ... we're thinking ... that's what this list was really for ... to get you thinking of some of the things we're talking about ... if there's something there that appeals to you. Armando: I think what I would like it to portray is that we as Tejanos ... you know ... we're diverse ... that we're ............ you know ... and we come from different backgrounds ... you know ... and we have ... we have Mexican blood in us ... we have American blood ... we have Indian blood ... different types of Indian blood ... and it's ... mainly that is what I'd like to portray. It's not ... Tejano's just not one certain group ... you know ... it's a diverse group ... it's a variety ... it's a mixture. L: It is and that's what makes this job so difficult ... is trying to ... Armando: And Tejano is really a translation of a Texan. L: As we're using it ... a Spanish-Texan ... Mexican-Texan. Armando: Because we ... because ... you know ... we also have blood coming from Spanish ... from Spain. It goes way back to our ancestors.Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 4 L: I guess really to go back that far and come through ... what we're saying is ... if you're living in Texas today ... you've never been to Spain ... you didn't live in Spain ... you weren't born there ... yes, your background ... your roots are very different ... they go in many directions ... but you're part of a culture here today ... part of your life may stem from Spain ... Spanish ... may stem from Indian roots ... Aztec ... from Maya ... from .......... ... ..: ........... L: ... I don't know where it comes from ... but your culture ... the way you live ... your traditions ... your religion ... your household ... your medical practices ... whether or not you believe in herbal medicine ... all the things that make up your life ... there's some similarity among Tejanos ... of course, there's some similarity with Germans and English and French, too. A lot of things ... good things ... the family ... keeping the family together ... the family tradition ... giving ... getting for birthdays ... I like to hear about that ... that doesn't happen a lot anymore. And it's being lost in a lot of different families and a lot of cultures. ..: Right. L: But it's something that when you think about the Tejano culture ... that's something that comes to mind ... the strength of family ... the religious aspect ... the fact that normally Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 5 religion plays a very strong role. Religion is not one of our 4 major areas because we decided that religion is a thread that runs through everything. It runs through your home ... your work ... your community ... it runs through all parts of the lives. So ... we understand that the backgrounds can come from many, many ways ... but I guess we're trying say ... we're trying to tell the world today ... this is the Tejano culture ... a lot of people ... Armando: That's what I'm trying to make it say in that we don't want to forget where we come from. That's what I would like to portray ... if you ask me. L: The roots. Armando: You know ... where we actually come from ... not ........... L: Okay. Armando: Right now ... you know ... a lot of young people ... you know ... you ask a young person ... a Spanish young person ... you ask him ... you know ... do you speak Spanish? ... a lot of them don't. And a lot of them don't speak Spanish ............. Why is it ... I know that English is the ......... language ... but that's one thing that we're forgetting ... our roots. I'd like to see that not forgotten. L: You would like to see ... we have one section called Colonial Roots ... and that section is the first one we're going do. We plan to make those points and bring that in. And we'd Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 6 like to start there too ... because that's where it all starts. Armando: And ... you know ... going to take ... before we did not have ... like history classes ... you know ... there was no history classes ... no Tejano history ... now we have Dr. ....... Martinez who is here ... and he's a professor there and ... but before ... you know ... you would look at a history book ... you would find no history there. L: I guess to go back to where we started ....... 2 or 3 years ago ... to look at Texas history book a few years ago you'd think there was no Texas before 1836 ... before the Alamo ... rah, rah, rah ... that's when Texas started. And the point we want to make is that that's not when Texas started ... Texas started 'way back before that. There were people here long before there was an Alamo or Sam Houston or Santa Ana or even .......... There were people here who worked ... who had hopes and faith and dreams and families and jobs and tried to make a better life for themselves and their families. So it goes back. And that's something we'd like to get across. Do you have a suggestion ... how you'd like to see it done? That would help a lot. Do you have any ideas about it or can you develop some as we're going? Hopefully ... because that's ... really those kinds of suggestions ... we ... we agree with you ... we'd like to do that. But how do you do it?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 7 Armando: Sort of like you said ... through educational programs ... videos ... lectures ... things like that. L: Different programs ... different ones ... diverse ... Now that we've gone through some of this ... what one thing would you like to tell people in an exhibit about the Tejano culture? LC: I love music and I think they definitely need to have the mariachis ... L: Music. LC: ... coming through and the girls that dance the different dances that came from Mexico. And on my book ... I mean on my page ... on the bakery ... I love Mexican sweetbread ... (laughter) ... everytime we go to Mexico that's the first place I go because I love the smell and the way they bake it in those ovens that are ... like ... out of dirt or ... ..: Yeah ... adobe. LC: ... adobe ... L: I'm trying to think of the name for that. ..: .......... LC: Yeah I know ... I go to Holly's school all the time. Antonio: Can we say something about ... like ........ changing some things about the educational system in the ........ in Texas? L: Changing the educational system in Texas?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 8 Antonio: In Texas ... changing towards the Mexican people? May a word more of what they're learning ... you know ... our kids are learning ... nowadays ... you know ... I don't know if that's right or not but I mean ... I am aware that sometimes is a lack of interest on some people. L: You're right. Sometimes there's a lack of interest on the schools ... sometimes there's a lack of interest on the kids ... to learn it ... the schools to teach it. One thing we try to do ... one thing that I think is the most important thing I think about our place is that we deal with kids. I know we deal with adults ... I try to deal with the kids and avoid the adults and let somebody else do that ... 'cause I like to work with kids. And I like to try to stimulate their interest ... get their little brains to work ... get them to wonder ... get them to ask questions ... the more they ask ............ ..: ................ MM: To follow on what he's saying ... it would be real helpful somehow or other to help all the children that come there to appreciate the language ... to appreciate who they are ... and the ... I don't know just how you would do that ... but through the music and through other exhibits to even to use the language there ... bilingual ... explain ... explaining things ... and another thing that's important is their faith ... but you said Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 9 that runs through everything ... but you know ... L: We plan on showing it in the various areas. In fact we might have a ... we may have a home altar in the little replica of a house that we may show the ... we may have some of the old Missions in Socorro ... the earliest mission in Texas probably at Socorro ... we may have a little replica of that to show klds some artifacts that have been in the church. MM: Then a lot of people came up here to get away from the persecution ... L: Uh-huh. MM: ... in Mexico and they brought their faith up here with them. L: Probably the Catholic church in this area has been a big bulwark ... a big help to support folks who did come up fleeing the persecution. And looking for opportunities. Back to your questions though ... we ... we have almost no effect on the educational system in Texas ... but we do have some. The lady ... Phyllis McKenzie ... who first spoke to us about 3 months ago ... she got a textbook in the mail ... Texas History ... and a publisher is writing the new Texas history book ... and he said to her to look and review the Tejano section ... the section ......... Mexican history ... to look and see whether it was right or wrong. They're no longer just printing the old stories ... they're going out to the museums ... to the Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 10 people who work in those fields and saying ... What is it? ... What about this? ... What do you think? And she said she would talk about the role of women ... Tejanas ... but that she sent 2 other professors in town ... 2 other guys who teach ... St. Mary's ... I think one at UTSA ... she said ... Why don't you talk with these guys about this? They said they did. When they finished reprinting the book they incorporated the changes that our folks had made. And we got a copy of the book ... they said this is your thank you for working ... here is your copy of the book. So books are being changed ... stories are being changed ... that's one of the reasons for this exhibit to change ... because the old Spanish-Mexican history is incomplete you might say ... it was told by one group of people who no longer live ... and no longer believed. I don't think we're trying to completely rewrite the world ... but there are parts of it that need to be corrected ... the parts that are wrong need to be fixed ... and that's one of our objectives, too. To tell the story a little bit more accurately of the Hispanics. Armando: .... you asked about exhibits ..... ... I mentioned this to you when I was in San Antonio ... about the series that I did ... the TV station ... about how I did it ... you know ... I had 2 of the programs on the history of the Mexican-American people ... Tejanos ... here in West Texas ... because West Texas Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 11 has been kind of left out from the rest of the state ... and so ... I did a couple of programs on that ... and then I did history on music ... Tejano music ... ............ mariachis ... you know ... the different types ... of different bands ... different groups ... ........... ... and I did one on Mexican cuisine ... you know ... comida ... .............. ... and like carnece ... how do you prepare the carnece ... you know ... ................. ... on pan dulce ... and also I did a program on education ... on 2 educators who teach here in Lubbock ... well one of them is the principal of Lubbock High and the other is ........ teaches at ......... High School ... you know ... and I kind of wanted to ... some of the young people to look at role models ... positive role models. And another program that I did was on Quinceaneras and Traditional Mexican Weddings ... how we ... Mexicanos celebrate ... you know ... weddings ... how and why ... you know ... like we have the lasso ... we have the ............. what it means ... ............... And there's a variety of other things ... I don't want to take up the whole time ... ............ L: I'm really interested in seeing it though ... if you could make me a copy ... can you do that? If I don't use it ... I'll certainly not use it commercially ... Armando: I'll have the ... we can't use it commercially because .........Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 12 L: Yes. Certainly don't want to do that ... but I would like to have it ....... people look at it. ............ Sally: You have about 5 more minutes before breaktime. L: Okay. Thank you. I told these folks you'd come here and hit me and you came in and were real nice ... see how nice ........ Armando: And another thing that I did is was on Art ... on Tejano artists ... L: Oh, yes. Armando: ............. ..: .............. L: Do you have any muralist here? Armando: Yeah, we have ... ..: ........... Armando: No ... that was done by somebody from ........... ..: Uh-huh. ..: ........... was hanging there ....... Armando: We do have some people ... I know there a gentleman ... his name is ............ ... he teaches elementary art ... ............. L: We saw the mural you're talking about. It looked pretty nice. Was there some local controversy over that? (mixed conversation) Armando: ...... was done way back in '70s? ........... LC: Uh ... after the tornado.Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 13 ..: Tornado. Armando: And it was done and it was kind of ... it wasn't very well done ... you know ... and it was kind of ........ ... starting just drawing graffiti on it and everything ... and they contracted an artist from ... I think he was from ......... ... ..: From Colorado ... yeah. Armando: ... Colorado. Antonio: But he contributed to the Texas part. ..: Uh-huh. Armando: And he painted ... you know ... the ... what it takes ... you know ... is people from .......... L: I looked at that and I figured out some of the symbolism ... I see education there ... I see the book and the kids holding the book ... ........ education there ... I see the church there ... I see the 2 flags marching side by side ... ......... MM: There're 2 nice shrines in the church that's painted clay ... right? ... colored clay? ... I saw that man do it ... his name is on there. He did those with colored clay ... they're really nice. L: Is this the same guy who did the ...... ? ..: No. MM: No. L: ............. ?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 14 Is there some that is unique ... let me start with you Sister ... she said 5 minutes ... we've got time to go around one more time ... do you think there's something unique about Tejanos in the Lubbock-Pan Handle area versus Tejanos in Houston or El Paso or ... do you think there's something special here that no one else has? MM: Well ... one thing I say right off my head is ... this is the more rural area ... although we read in Lubbock everything is dominated by agriculture for the most part ... and that's what makes it different from the big city. L: Would you agree with that? LC: Well, my thoughts are that I really do see a difference ... because here in Lubbock I believe the Hispanics or the Mexicanos or whatever they want to be called ... there's even a ... each individual wants to be called something else ... you know ... .......... ... but I feel here in this area ... I think that our people ... the younger ones ... are more ... Anglo-ized ... than in Houston. In Houston they are more ... you know ... there's a lot that come in from Mexico ... and you hear them all speaking ... in the stores and things ... they're all speaking in Spanish. Here in Lubbock I don't ... I don't feel that it's like that. L: Are they losing their Spanish or just chosing not to speak it?Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 15 LC: I think they're losing it and ... I mean ... I can speak for myself see ... I didn't even know how to speak Spanish ... because my father ... he didn't want us to speak in Spanish. I don't know if he did us good ... or if he did ... he did us good in some ways because we were never discriminated ... and then he did us bad because he never taught us ... L: You'd lost a part of .... LC: Right. Uh-huh. But I know my grandkids ... most of them ... they do not know how to speak Spanish. L: Um. How about you sir, do you think there's a different in the Tejano in Lubbock than there is say Houston or El Paso or San Antonio? Antonio: I think it is. A lot of difference. Like she said about this .... L: Language. Antonio: ... language ... go out here in Lubbock ... we do have some groups that ... like me ... for instance me ... my family ... I got some grandsons ... you talk to me in Spanish ... you talk to me in Chicano ... I don't understand what you're saying ... and they're learning ... they're learning since they were about 3 years old ... and I keep coming up with that ... so they keep the tradition ........ L: I like that. I understand about 15 years ago there was a proposal in the state ... and they also hoped to make all Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 16 the schools in Texas teach English and Spanish ... to make every ... even though there was German ... English ... Anglo ... Mexican ... what ... learn both languages ... and it failed ... I wish it hadn't ... I wish my kids had learned Spanish. ..: ........... Armando: Well I know a couple of students ........ who are from San Antonio ............. young people in San Antonio ... Houston that ............ L: It's helping a lot. LC: It's all over ... but I mean ... those that are getting ... those that are going on to college are the ones that don't know how to speak Spanish. And those that ... like I'm talking about the people that I see in Houston and they don't ... some of them probably they don't even go to school. L: You're talking about some of the kids in the street ... the shopkeepers ... the storekeepers ... the business folks? Let's go take a break. They're going to show that movie ... if we can ...... 7 minutes .... Armando: Can I say one thing about ... when we come back ... that's unique about ... the thing that I see unique about the Hispanic people here is that most of us ... you know ... we have people ... like Mr. Romero ... ........ dad or grandmother ... they were all ... we all either came from South Texas ... from New Mexico ... or somewhere ... you know ... a lot of them Tejano Community Meetings, Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 1 of 2) 17 migrated here to this area ... you know ... and most of the people in San Antonio ........ actually been there a lot longer ........ ... but most of us ... our ancestors ... you know ... actually came ........ to building railroads ... or come to work on ......... ... and things like that ... and that's mainly what I see that's unique us ... that we came from different ... you know ... different areas to this ... to the Lubbock area. L: I would like to stop here ... when we come back I want to ask you about that. That's ...... take a break. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1, ABOUT .. MINUTES. SIDE 2 - BLANK

Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Abernathy, Texas, Part 3, October 16, 1994

Transcripts of community meetings conducted by the Institute of Texan Cultures as part of the Tejano Community Advisory Group.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES Tejano Community Meetings INTERVIEW WITH: Theresa Flores, Flora Lopez, Mario Lopez, Mrs. Caballero (Tape 2 of 2) DATE: 16 October 1994 PLACE: Abernathy, Texas INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo, Leo Benavidez L: ... Okay, this is the 2nd session. And it's Lubbock ... I'm sorry ... Abernathy, Texas, and it's still the 16th of October. Can we pass it around? F: Theresa Flores and I'm here from in Abernathy. FL: Flora Lopez from Abernathy. ML: Mario Lopez from Abernathy. B: Leo Benavidez. L: And David LaRo. B: What is ... where did you want to go? .......... (mixed conversation) ..: I can't think of ........... L: Pardon? Go where? ..: ........... somebody from Lubbock. I don't know. L: Well .... ..: ................ is from .......... B: ........... ..: Henry Cavazos I think is ......... ..: I saw a picture of Cavazos ... why ... why? ..: Henry Cavazos was the president of Texas Tech.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 2 B: Okay. L: Oh. ..: ... Tech University. ..: He was the Secretary of Education? ...... F: ........ Now he's the Secretary of Education. ..: Laro Cavazos. F: Laro Cavazos. B: Laro Cavazos. Okay. F: Larry Cavazos ......... ..: ........ (Spanish) .......... F: That's Laro Cavazos. ..: Laro Cavazos. F: Uh-huh. But for some reason it's Larry Cavazos for me ... L: We have talked about him. We talked about him at Edinburg ... yes ... F: Laro Cavazos is the one. ..: He's very ... he's known a lot in Lubbock. ..: In Lubbock he's very well known. F: Yeah ... in Lubbock he's very well known. L: And this is the ....... F: He did quite a bit of ... you know ... changes. And he ... I know when he was in there one year that I went to Tech for ... you know ... my education ... I was going to Tech there Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 3 ... he had scholarships ... ..: ....... F: ... for ... oh, what did he call it? ... for minorities ... B: Okay. F: ... which ... it paid off one semester ... you know ... and I could have continued going but with my finances and everything else I never went back ... you know ... but he ... he offered ... you know ... with the idea that you kept a certain grade point average and you would continue getting ... but he did a lot for the minorities. B: He did? F: Uh-huh. L: Wasn't his brother a general? a high ranking officer? one of the highest in the Army? I think he was. F: Brother? ..: ........... L: You mean that's all for the 2nd session? Sally: That's it. L: Okay. Okay. Let's go for it. B: Let's ........ that we the exhibit already there and you go and see it and you go and see it ... how would you like to come feeling like what? ...... come out exhibits ... I feel good being a Tejano ... you know ..........Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 4 ..: Knowing that you took that ... .......... in there and then ... B: ......... Tejano ..: Yeah ... but to see your ancestors ... B: Uh-huh. ..: ... you know ... there ... that you got the feeling of ........ saw someone that ... your ancestors ... you know ... B: Uh-huh. ..: .......... and stuff. ML: I'd like to come out of there feeling that ... Pa was right ... Ma was right ... (mixed conversation) L: Your momma was right? ..: Yeah. ML: My mom was right and my dad was right. B: What kind of feelings would you like coming out of that exhibit? ML: I guess you have to see the Institute ......... ..: ............. L: Let me ask ........ ML: I'm going to make sure I do go ...... (laughter) L: Let me ask ... you just said something ... ..: .......... L: You just said something ... yes ... anybody for Leo? Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 5 ........ You just said something ... mama was right ... papa was right ... talking about heroes ... I guess ... I told her earlier one of the sessions we came to ... a lady ........ my mother is my hero ... always been my hero. ML: This lady was in El Paso? L: Yes. How does that grab you? ..: ........... L: What does that make you think? ..: ....... ML: Well ... I think that if you see your parents like that it's beautiful. Because that's where you ... that's where I've learned most of the things that I know. And I wished there was ... that I had picked up a lot more than what they ....... me. I don't know if ....... (Spanish) ........ I don't know how they do that ... but all I know is when ........ (Spanish) .......... (laughter) ... couldn't wait for it to get out. (laughter) B: That would be good. ML: ....... (Spanish) ....... like you say ... that place ... and you see something that your parents did there ... ..: ............ ML: ... you know ... like ... that was ....... mom. L: There's one thing I want to ask ... at least get a couple of opinions before we leave ... what would you ... personally Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 6 ... start with you ... what would you like people to know about the Tejano culture ... of Mexicans ... Hispanics ... Tejano culture ... what we're talking about ... what would you like ... a point you would like to make about it to an audience? F: As far as ... you know ... the culture ... I feel like ... as ... you know ... here in Texas or Tejana ... Tejano ... whatever ... I think we are a multi-cultural type of a race. That we have a lot to offer ... you know ... we have ... maybe my ways might be different from somebody else here ... but in a sense you're still talking the same thing ... but in a different aspect. So ... L: In other words ... you'd like not to limit it ... you'd like to ........ F: No ... there ... I don't think there should be a limit. I don't think in any race ... you know ... there is a limit ... I think you still have space to expand. L: Let me ask you though ... what one thing ... or what small group of things would you talk about ... now we only have about 5 more minutes ... would you like an exhibit like this to tell people about the Tejanos in general ... what would you like to get across ... a point? FL: .......... until you learn more about ..... L: To learn. FL: To learn more about your race. .........Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 7 L: The culture ... the traditions ... and so on. FL: Uh-huh. And to be ... you know ... ....... family ... I mean ... to be with your family and to learn more about your ancestors ... what they did ... because that's what ... I mean ... that's how we get along ... I mean ... more ... you know ... like ... for example what I did with my son ... you know ... I learned that from my mom ... my mom learned that from her mom ... and you know ... little things like that. L: Mr. Lopez, have you got something that you'd add to that? What would you like to say? Something different from that perhaps? ML: .......... I think that thing that I really want ... like my children of this new generation that's coming up is ... that there was always a lot of respect back in the Spanish ... to respect your mom and your dad. And that's lacking a lot right now ... here. Even in our own family. And to see ... you know ... like dad would look at me with his eyes and I knew I was in trouble then ... ..: (laughter) ML: ... respecto ... and to see ... if they could go in there and they could see ... you know ... Hey, they ...... back then? ... I mean ... it wasn't like nowdays? No ... no ... it's not the same. L: To show them a little bit of how it was then.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 8 FL: Yes. Because ... you know ... when we were raising up ... when we raised ........ ....... (Spanish) .......... ... I was going to get it if I didn't shake the hand of those two people ... you know ... ...... (Spanish) ......... by the time they left your house ...... and now ..... (Spanish) ........ ML: We're losing it. We're losing the respect for ..... FL: For each other. L: It's not just Tejano ... it's society ....... ML: But the society itself would ....... ..: .......... F: That was the biggest ......... ..: ............. F: And there was a certain look that the adult ... the adult figure ... you know ... that adult could be even 3 years older than you were ... you know ... or 4 years older ... you know ... something like that ... but that person had the ... the upper hand ... you know ... I mean ... he was the top ... he was the one that you had to wait ... you know ... and then of course your elders ... your uncles ... your aunts ... or whatever ... but especially your parents ... they had this certain look in the eye ... you knew right off you were in hot water. But they didn't discuss it ... this was another thing ... they didn't discuss it in front of people ... they waited for a certain time and then you were ...Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 9 L: Then you got it. F: ... you got it. Yeah. But ... L: You said something. F: No ... that's okay ... I'm finished. (laughter) L: I've heard that recently and I've seen it and ......... and it's nice to be the oldest because you get to be the first. You said something earlier ... you said something about where you were raised ... where were you born? where were you raised? around here? ML: Yeah ... but I'm from over there ... from Poth ... but I was raised .......... in the country ... out in the country. L: How long did you leave the ranch? ML: I was about 18 when I married my husband ... 18. L: And you'd been on the ranch all that time? ML: Uh-huh. L: Where did you go to school? ML: I went to a country school. But when I was in the 7th grade ... there in ........... ... L: Through the 7th grade? ..: .......... L: All grades there in one school? .......... ML: Uh-huh. There was no more than about 15 kids. L: Was it a segregated school? Or was it all mixtures? ML: No ... it was all mixtures. Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 10 L: ........ ML: But mostly ... there wasn't no ... uh ... you know ... Black people ... there was only Spanish and English people. L: And you ... you grew up where? Did you grow up on a ranch or in a town? F: No. I grew up in the country. All my life. L: .......... F: Well, I went to school in ... we lived out ... 14 miles out of ... from Wolfforth ... Friendship ... so we were ... we were in the middle ... so but we lived out in the country ... you know ... all my life ... up until ... well even when I got married my husband was still working out in the country ... you know ... farm labor ... so ... for the past 17 years we've lived in town ... but ... L: But your growing up was pretty stable ... you were on the ranch and you didn't travel a lot ... you didn't move a lot ... your family was pretty stable. F: No ... we were stable ... we weren't migrants. ..: ....... F: We were not migrants. ML: ........... L: Your family was? ML: Yeah ... well ... since we were so many ... they stayed at home and they sent us to work.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 11 L: ........ ML: We would go to California and we'd go to San Diego all the way up ... and then once we got through we'd come back and then finish the school ... (laughter) ... B: ....... (Spanish) ..... ML: ........... L: The schooling was what? ... when you were not working ... your schooling was here in Texas? ML: Yes. L: During the off seasons. ML: They took us a lot to pick cotton over here in Abilene ... Merkel. L: Abilene. ML: You know ... you used to go pick cotton and then once the cotton season was over they'd put us in school. L: That was it. Leo, I'm going to leave you in trouble with Sally. B: ........ (Spanish) .............. ML: ........ (Spanish) ........... construction ... Caterpiller ... B: Oh. ML: They'd have ... was that Eagle ........ they'd have a contract with Caterpiller and we'd build ......... B: But the majority of the people are farmhands?Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 2 of 2) 12 FL: Yeah. ML: Yeah. B: That's how they make a living? ML: Uh-huh. B: Oh ... okay. L: Before Sally comes and gets you in trouble ... I'm leaving. B: Did you turn it off? L: No. Would you ask Mrs. Caballero that last question about what would she like the exhibit to show ... and get some info. B: ......... (Spanish) ........... Mrs. Caballero: .......... (Spanish) ........... B: Okay. Mrs. Caballero: ......... ............ (Spanish) ....... L: Okay ... I think that wraps it up. I'm sorry we didn't have more time to sit and talk ... we spent too much time outside listening to somebody else ......... (laughter) ..... thank you all for coming though. We appreciate it very much ... appreciate your help. END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 2, ABOUT .. MINUTES. SIDE 2 - BLANK

Tejano Community Advisory Committee meetings, Abernathy, Texas, Part 2, October 16, 1994

Transcripts of community meetings conducted by the Institute of Texan Cultures as part of the Tejano Community Advisory Group.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES Tejano Community Meetings INTERVIEW WITH: Theresa Flores, Flora Lopez, Mario Lopez, ......... Mendoza, ............... (Tape 1 of 2) DATE: 16 October 1994 PLACE: Abernathy, Texas INTERVIEWERS: David LaRo, Leo Benavidez L: If you'll have your name ... start out with your name ... say ... Hi, I'm so and so. I'm David LaRo, the date is the 16th of October, this is Lubbock, Texas, and this is ... B: Leo Benavidez, Lubbock, Texas, October 16th. L: If you all will just add your name to it ... say your name and pass it around ... say a few words ... your name ... and something ... so when the ...... types it ... we'll know ... this voice is Theresa's ... and this voice is ....... F: Theresa Flores ... we're actually here in Abernathy ... so this is the ...... town that we're in. (laughter) L: Flora Lopez ... from Abernathy. ML: Also Mario Lopez ... aqui Abernathy tambien. ..: ..... (Spanish) ....... ..: ...... (Spanish) ........ ..: Si ......... Mendoza. ..: ............ ..: ......... Mendoza. ..: ............. L: We'll leave this over here so it'll pick up your voices Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 2 .......... like that. Okay. B: I'd like to open the meeting ... or the session ... what you liked to be called ... Tejano or Chicano or Mexican-American? Senora Lopez? F: Flores. B: Flores ... I'm sorry. (laughter) F: Uh .... B: What would you like to be called? F: ...... my preference would be Mexican-American ... you know. B: Mexican-American. Okay. F: Because ... one ... all of my ancestors ... as far as both sides of my ... my mother and father were from Mexico ... B: Okay. F: ... my grandmother ... my mother's mother ... she was an Aztec Indian ... so she was way back ... I mean ... inside of Mexico. So I have ... you know ... a rich blood as far as the Mexican ... you know ... type thing. And so I feel like ... I'm more comfortable ... you know ... with the Mexican-American. Now with my children it's a total different thing because they have more of a mix-in ... you know ... and here on ... say their mother ... Aztec-Mexican-American ... to where the father ... his grandparents ... great-grandparents ... were from Spain. So they ... some of them ... especially my oldest ... he Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 3 considers himself more Hispanic because of the different cultures that he's in. B: Senor Lopez? ML: ....... (Spanish) .... Americano ... Mexican ... Chicano ... L: Americano ........ B: Senor Lopez? ML: ..... Mexican-American. B: Mexican-American? ML: Yeah. B: ....... (Spanish) ..: .... Mexicana. B: Mexicana? ..: ....... (Spanish) ...... M: Mexicana. B: Mexicana. B: ......... (Spanish) .......... I want to make this exhibit ... I'd like to have this ... what would you like to have ... what would you like to be there? ..... (Spanish) ..... ..: ........ (Spanish) ....... learning or teaching ... you know ... it's ........ like my mom ... she's old ... my dad ..... (Spanish) ..... but what I enjoy a lot is listening to old people and telling me the things of the past. ...... (Spanish) .... But for them actually to be there and seeing Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 4 it ....... B: ....... (Spanish) ........ ..: ......... si ........ uh-huh. Even because ... well ... on my wife's side of the family they even tell the joke that they told back then ... you know ... (laughter) ... and a lot of them were like riddles ... you know ... B: ....... L: Could I ask you all one favor, please? When we have these tapes transcribed the lady has to do a ... if they're in Spanish ... it takes her twice as long ... she has to go through about 2 steps ... so if you can say what you've got to say in English ... please do. ..: Okay. L: If it can only be said in Spanish ... and some things can ... you know ... then do what you've got to do ... but it makes it easier for the lady doing this ... who is Spanish ... she prefers to work .... because it saves her having to go through the step ... from the tape ... to the Spanish ... from the Spanish ... to the English ... it's just easier ... and, boy, does it take time ........ ..: Um ............. F: I just ... the same as Mario was talking about. You know ... because ... you know ... some of the ... I mean my grandparents now have passed away but they used to talk a lot Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 5 about their ... you know ... the time when they were ... you know ... both of my grandfathers fought in the Revolution ... you know ... and they talked a lot about their stories. B: Right. F: You know ... and things that they did ... what they had to go through ... and stuff like that. And which now when my children come in and ask ... you know ... especially when Texas history that they are studying ... you know ... if I didn't know these ... you know ... even though they are folk stories to some people ... you know ... it's something that they can relate to as far as ... well, I have ancestors that actually fought in the Texas Revolution ... you know. B: What Tejano man or woman would you like to see in the exhibit? Henry Gonzales or ........ here I go in Spanish again ....... L: Hero? B: What Spanish model ... you know ... Henry Cisneros ... Henry Gonzales ......... L: Henry Cisneros is from our part of the world. He's our mayor who's in Washington ... but we don't know who's around here? What important people are good role models for our kids? Tell us some. If you ... Who are your heroes? Who'd you like to see ...........? We get some of the most unusual answers ... lot of folks have said ... my mother. which was really Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 6 .......... hadn't thought about that ... how do you ..... ? ..: ...... don't know. ..: I don't know. L: Think about it ... we'll come back to it ... you don't have to ........... Who would you like to see a role-model? What about Senor ..............? ..: ....... (Spanish) ............. ..: Como ............. ..: ....... (Spanish) ........ L: Cesar Chavez. ..: ...... (Spanish) ......... ..: ......... (Spanish) ......... ..: Here there's ... in Lubbock there's a group called COMA ... Chambers of Mexican-Americans. And they have been doing very well except for recently they had arguments between each other ... but they're changing ... they got new members ... and the new members are trying to change that ... but I would like to see something ....... that group in there ... but like I said they're having problems right now also ... so ... that would make ... What these people do ... they come around here and they help a lot of these smaller towns ... ..: Uh-huh. ..: ... and they are from Lubbock. But they come around and they help around the schools and it ... even if it's a right Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 7 ... they have to fight for it ... they will fight for it. B: What percent of Mexican-Americans live in Lubbock? ..: Oh ... quite a bit. L: We've heard 23 ... 25 ... something like that. ..: 25 percent? L: That's what I've heard ... I don't know. ..: I think there's ... ..: There's more. F: I'll say there's about ... um ... ..: About 30? F: ... there's about ... there's very ... maybe ... there's a limit ... there's about 5 black families ... just alone here in this town ... and then ... B: In Abernathy? F: ... uh-huh ... here in Abernathy ... and then as far as Hispanics ... I'll say it's about 75 percent. L: Just in Abernathy would you say? .......... F: I'm just talking here ... you know ... just in Abernathy. But if you put ... you know ... like the Lubbock or the whole Lubbock County ... I'll ... I think it's about 40 ... 40 percent. ..: Yeah. ..: I would have to agree with that. Because everywhere I go there's ... ..: Uh-huh. ............Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 8 ..: ... Mexican-Americans ... or whatever they want to be called ... Chicanos ... whatever. L: That's a funny term ... this word ... this language ... you saw from the video ... the whole thing is ... you pick 10 people ... you get 10 opinions. There's no way we can say this is the right word. ..: Uh-huh. L: It'll never be right ... except for yourself ........ ..: I noticed in the applications ... the job applications ... they have Mexican-American ... Latin ... Chicano ... you know ... and I never use Chicano or Hispanic ... I never use Chicano because ... (laughter) ... I'll never get a job with that. They hear the word Chicano ... it's like ... if you're Chicano ... you're like in a gang or ... L: It carries a bad image. ..: Uh-huh. L: Like one of the guys on the tape said ... To me that's an insult. In San Antonio it's not ... you know ... in California probably not either ... but it takes all kinds ......... Chicano ...... ..: There is a lot of Spanish ....... F: It depends on the area that you're in as far as what you want to be called. L: .................Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 9 ..: ......... (Spanish) ............ B: What would you like for the people in San Antonio to know about Lubbock ... about Abernathy? When we open the exhibit ... what would you like for the people to know about Abernathy or about Lubbock? ........ (Spanish) ....... ..: ............. ..: Yeah. L: Agricultural. ..: I think so. L: This is an agricultural area. But what else do you have? What else is important here? What's different here than say from Houston ... .................. Valley ? How are we different in Lubbock? How is the Hispanic community? How is the are different? ............. ..: Like this morning when you ate breakfast and they offered enchilladas for breakfast ... L: ........... ..: Oh, really? ..: Uh-huh. Is that custom or ...? ..: No. ..: No. ..: They say ...... enchilladas with ...... L: ........ one of those places again. ..: ............ enchilladas for breakfast? (laughter) Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 10 ........ I found it funny ... not funny ... but kind of ... L: I can do that ... I can do that. .......... ..: But the culture from Lubbock's a lot different from El Paso. ....... F: I think so too. ..: Very different than ......... F.: Because ... I think ... a lot of the ... you know ... let's say ... especially ... you know ... San Antonio may be that direction ... they have more of the ... you know ... more of ... what am I trying to say? ... they're culture is almost the same as far as ... if you're up North ... I think ... we have more of the ... the so-called Anglo culture ... we carry that more than ... you know ... I'll say than the people from San Antonio. ..: Uh-huh. ..: ....... ones from the Valley are different culture from El Paso. ........... difference is tremendous. The people are ... they're different. F: Yeah ... because from San Antonio ... ..: But the ...... F: ... from San Antonio down ... I think like the Spanish language is used a lot more than let's say ... up here ... you know. I'll say for example ... my own children ... they comprehend everything that I say to them in Spanish ... but Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 11 they will not carry a conversation with me in Spanish what-so-ever. They understand everything but they will not communicate with me. And it ... I feel like if we were ... you know ... I don't know ... down there I think they put more emphasis as far as their language is concerned. L: ........ I just realized I'm being very rude ... I'm not sure ... I'm trying to make it easier for the transcriber ... I don't know if Mrs. .......... understand English or not. If she doesn't .......... ..: .......... English? L: Do you understand English? ..: ...... (Spanish) .......... L: Then perhaps we should go ahead and do the whole thing in Spanish so that she will be included and not be left out? Is that okay with everybody? I just realized ... she doesn't understand ........... ..: .......... L: Then we'll go ahead in Spanish and just let the lady work harder. (laughter) ..: ......... (Spanish) ......... ..: In Easter every ... I mean ... since ........ we've been married what? ... 20 ... 20 years ... they've always had a reunion at Easter ... you know ... and that's one thing that they've always had at the reunion. And that's been ... and I know Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 12 they've continued before I ever got married. ..: Uh-huh. ..: So they've always had a reunion at Easter. B: What do you all think about the ........... ? ..: .... (Spanish) ........ B: Would you like to see mariachis in an exhibit like this? ..: ..... (Spanish) ........ L: How about music? Just some music ... hear the music? Instead of seeing the ......... music? ........ ..: ...... (Spanish) ......... L: Yes ... when we lost our guide down there ... our music guide ... ................. ..: Did you notice that ... like ... what is that park outside? ... what is it Sea World? ... ..: Uh-huh. ..: Fiesta. ..: Fiesta. L: Oh, there's 2. ..: Okay. This ... it's been about a month ... 2 months ... ....... (Spanish) ......... and Disney Land ... you know ... they would bring popular groups ... just to be out there ... ....... (Spanish) .......... B: How about ... in the questionaires we had something about Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 13 curanderos ... would you like to have some of that in the exhibit? .............. ..: ........ (Spanish) .......... L: Would you like to see it in the exhibit? that ........? ..: No. ............ F: As far as ... well ... my grandmother used to do that. You know ... she was ... one of those that did a lot ... but ... I mean ... she didn't ... how can I say this? ... she was more of the herbs and tea-type. B: Okay. F: She wasn't this other with this spiritual ... ..: ........ curandero ........ (Spanish) ........ (mixed conversation) L: In the Valley it's ......... ... they think one is the other ... but ... ..: Okay. L: ... we don't think that ... we think the curandero is the person who does the healing with the ... herbs. ..: Okay ... well that ... ..: .... (Spanish) ...... F: That one ... you know ... it's just the herbs ... ..: That's fine. ..: ... and ... you know ... ..: Teas ... .......Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 14 F: ... yes ... because I still use a lot of those herbs ... you know ... for my own ... my own purposes ... you know. If ... if you don't believe in it ... then ... you know ... L: So what. F: ... I mean ... that's fine ... but ... L: But you have aloe vera plants around your house? F: Uh ... no ... I've got more of ... well ... I buy mainly mine ... you know ... in the store. But like the mint ... you know ... the mint I have always ... ..: Right. ..: You know I was brought up ....... ... you know ... when you have a real high fever ... I mean ... and just recently I had a ... my oldest boy real sick ... he didn't want to go to the doctor ... so ... you know ... I started to peel some potatoes ... and I put potatoes around ... ...... potatoes around him ... putting ....... around it ... and that did help ... I mean ... ..: I didn't hear about that one. ..: ... I mean I believe in that ... my mother did that to us and his fever went down ... and I believe that ... I mean ... you know ... and perhaps I prayed too ... but ... you know ... ..: ....... (Spanish) ...... B: This is curandero .... right?Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 15 ..: Uh-huh. ......... (Spanish) .......... L: One thing we hope to learn from the exhibit and from this ........ ... we're learning a lot ... Leo and I have both learned a lot ....... ... about a month ago a lady came to see us and she's from a museum in East Texas and she's doing a museum called ... an exhibit called Tejanos ... of all things ... ..: Okay. L: ... and I said ... You copied our word. But she let me read her script and she said ... I want to talk about curanderos and I said ... No, no ...... ... That doesn't mean the same thing to everybody ... why don't you call it herbal medicine? ... natural medicine? That you don't misinterpret ... when you say curandero some folks think you mean the witch doctors .... ..: Yeah ... uh-huh. ..: Yes. L: ... so it depends on where you are ... what these words mean. ..: But it's played a big part in Tejano ... L: Tejano culture ... yes. ..: ....... (Spanish) ..... L: It plays a part in a lot of cultures in a different form ... but it's been a very big basic part of Tejano cultures I'd Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 16 say. Sally came to tell us that we aren't going to have a break. ..: I personally ... L: Take 5 minutes and we'll get coffee. ..: I personally think that we should have something like that ... ............ (mixed conversation) ..: With the herbs and ..... ..: With the herbs .... F: ... and the oils ... and stuff. I think so too. ..: ......... border and we can't forget those ... ..: Uh-huh. F: But I think that's part of our heritage. ..: Uh-huh. ..: ....... (Spanish) ...... ..: Like you have children ...... your child the other day ... when he grows ... he's going to think about what momma used to do for him .... ....... (Spanish) ....... ....... (Spanish) ........ B: ....... migrant ... what do you think about that? ...... migrant truck? ..: Uh-huh. ..: ......... B: How can we improve that? ..: ......... (Spanish) ........ Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 17 (mixed conversation) ..: .......... ... you know ... that big black kettle? ..: Uh-huh. ..: .......... ... they had those ... ..: ......... F: Well, yeah ... my grandmother she had 3 ... ..: Uh-huh. L: .......... F: ... she had a big one where she did her laundry. ..: Uh-huh. F: And you didn't put anything else in there except for laundry. And she had another one where she just kept coals in it ... you know ... or ... pieces of wood or whatever ... B: Uh-huh. F: ... and then she had one where she just used to cook ... you know ... a big ole pot of beans or whatever ... you know ... but she had 3 different things. And then 3 different skillets ... and each one had its own purpose for each ... big ole iron skillet. L: Let me ask you ... .... at this point ... my grandmother used to do that ... but she made soap ... have you ever watched your grandmother make soap? ..: Uh-huh. L: Which pot did she make it in? Did she have another pot Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 18 for the soap? Was that the laundry pot? F: That's the laundry pot. ..: ........ L: Okay. I didn't ... I just remember one pot my grandmother ... I don't remember 3. ..: Heavy ........ L: You think we should have one of those on the truck? F: I think so because I think they used those a lot. L: ...... migrants? B: We're talking about the truck ... it's not only a place to talk about the migrant labor aspect of ... also you could put musicians ... entertainers up there ... and have kids around the floor ... you can talk ... or you can put a political speaker up there ... it can be a stage ... it'll have a lot of uses. We don't have much room and so we try to do things that can be used for more than one thing. ..: How about a screen porch? With maybe an old person telling old stories ... ..: Uh-huh ... stories ... L: Stories ... yes. ..: ... of los ninos. ..: Well ... like me ... I was raised like that. ..: Uh-huh. ..: You know ... on the rancho ... you know ....... Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 19 B: Would you like to see something like in a video ... like a quinceanero? ......... (Spanish) ....... (mixed conversation) L: Rituals that bind a culture ... ..: Yes ... uh-huh. L: ... rituals ... religious ... family ..... ..: ........... like your family ....... ..: ........ ..: ........ Reunion? ..: ......... ..: About 10 years from now? ..: It's a big family. ..: ...... brothers and sisters and their kids ... and we get together ..... ..: ...... difficult ... F; It's about the only big family here in Abernathy. It's the only big family. L: Hey ... you're right. ..: ........... Rodriquez? F: Oh, yeah. ..: The Rodriguez ... they have one more member than ....... ..: ........ F: Well ... she would have had 20 ... 23 ... ..: 22.Tejano Community Meetings, Abernathy, Texas David LaRo, Leo Benavidez (Tape 1 of 2) 20 F: ... about 23. That's another family. But right now ... I think ... you know ... well ... those 2 ... and then the rest of them consist of us ... like 9 ... 8 ... 6 ... you know ... But I'll say in our ... in our generation ... you know ... same age group ... we're ... it was ... Abernathy consisted of a lot of large families. But family reunions I think that's one thing that we do have. ..: ......... ....... (Spanish) ......... ..: Recently we had a quinceanero. ..: Jose? ..: A boy. ..: A boy ... uh-huh. L: I've never heard of a quinceanero. ...... (Spanish) ........ B: We celebrate a quinceanera for the girls ... L: Uh-huh. B: ... and a quinceanero for the boys. L: I've never heard that before ... have you? F: This was ... (mixed conversation) ..: Yeah ... well he was originally ... they were from here ..

Tejano Community Advisory Committee meeting, Lubbock, Texas, Part 9, October 16, 1994

Transcripts of community meetings conducted by the Institute of Texan Cultures as part of the Tejano Community Advisory Group.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES Tejano Community Meetings INTERVIEW WITH: Armando Rodriguez, Antonio Romero, Lillie Carrillo, Sister Martha Molihan (Tape 2 of 2) DATE: 16 October 1994 PLACE: St. Joseph's Church, Lubbock, Texas INTERVIEWER: David LaRo L: This is session 2, David's session, the 16th of October, in Lubbock. And the time is 5:45. ... set where session 2 to take the tape out. Where we left ... I think ... was with you telling what you would like to see ... what point you'd like to get across in the exhibit ... you were talking when we finished ... Armando: Uh ... (laughter) ... I forgot ... ..... talking about what I had on the series that I did ... L: Yeah, we gotten past that ... ....... what you would like to see in our exhibit to ... Well ... let's look at it in a different way ... what I see in our exhibit is an exhibit that is probably going to get a mixed group of Anglos ... Germans ... Mexicans ... you know ... a mixed group of all sorts of people that come in. When people walk out of that exhibit ... what thought do you want them to go away with? ArmandO: I guess ... mainly you know ... I guess ... even though where we are Tejanos ... you know ... because we live in Texas ... you know ... that's why we're Tejanos ... right? ... you know ... we can be Hispanics ... or we can be Mexican-American ... you know ... but ... well ... let's go back ... I guess what I'd like to see in an exhibit is different things like I was talking to you about ....... an idea of how we ... L: Music and foods and ...... Armando: ... yeah ... mainly how we live ... you know ... like a Mexican wedding ... like a Catholic Mexican wedding you know ... I'd like to see maybe ... you know ... what actually ... you know ... ............. origin of the lasso ... the difference symbols that we have ... the symbolism that we have ... and things like that. The quinceaneras especially .... you know ... I want them to know that a quinceanera is not the dance that takes after the ... the quinceanera is actually the young girl who celebrates her ............ L: Okay ... we got a budget last year that let us do this. We went out and hired a professional ... we filmed ... we spent all day with a quinceanera ... we filmed it from start ... the preparations ... the finish ... Armando: That's what I did. L: ... and we could edit that and get bits of that to tell the story. That's something we've already ........ Armando: I did the same thing with that. I went and taped a quinceanera and I had the .......... and I had the sisters talk about it ... L: So that's definitely a part of the thing. I ............ I guess there could be a different ... you were talking about Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 3 something out there ... there could be a difference ... what do you want a Tejano to walk out of the exhibit feeling? Versus what you want an Anglo to walk out of the exhibit feeling? Antonio: I want an Anglo to walk out of the exhibit feeling to ... I don't want them to go back to where it was ... you know ... I want them to go ahead and be more social....... with Tejanos ... or Mexicans ... or whatever ... that's what I'd like to see in the exhibit. L: You'd like to see an improvement ... an education ... Antonio: An improvement ... an education ... L: ... understanding ... Antonio: ... understanding ... ......... well ... I think I understand ... but I don't know if they do understand you know ... but I do like to ... for them people to get in mind that we don't think so bad about them ... not for them to not understand us ... see what I mean? L: Uh-huh. Antonio: I don't know if I explain myself? L: Yes, I understand. Antonio: I'd like to see that exhibit ... you know ... something like that ... so they ... so they can understand us better and I think .......... go home ... itself ... you know ... I think it will. Because a lot of Anglos they've still got a ... a little ... I think a prejudice on it ... you know ... I think. Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 4 I'm sorry to say that ... but that's the way ... that's the truth. L: That's true. Antonio: That's true. Armando: Yes ... especially in the West Texas area. Antonio: Yeah. And I'd like to see that exhibit come across to them people. Or if they go down there to that whatever ... L: Well ... they do ... a lot of folks do. What would you like to see a young Hispanic man or girl ... woman ... of say 15 or 16 ... what would you like them to walk away with? What would you like to say to them? What feeling would you want them to walk out the door with? Antonio: The feeling I'd like for them to walk out with is ... I think it'd be ... like ... more obedient ... more obedient to their ... to whatever they do. And study ... study well whatever they do ... on the right way ... let it go ... because I've seen so many people destroyed on account of that understanding see ... account of that education really ... so I think ... L: You'd like to impress to them of some of the benefits of working and trying ... Antonio: Working and trying ... L: ... ........ themselves ... Antonio: ... and keep on going.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 5 L: ... because there is a better life ... a better way if you're working for .......... that's a good point. Antonio: It is a better life if you've got an education. L: Uh-huh. Antonio: I don't have an education and I see the lack of education that I had. I had on my mind that I ...... a lot of things ... you know what I mean ... but I don't have the education. And I see a person with education ... even to talk about it ... I mean ... when you talk to the people who're educated ... you can understand real well ... you know. And young people that don't study too much ... drop-outs ... or whatever you want to name them ... ...... or lack of education ... even communicating ... communicating you see ... communicating with their parents ... communicating with the community ... communicating ... you know ... listen ............. ... and I'd like for them to have that impression ... to keep that education going. Especially the education on young people. L: You'd like to stimulate them to try to improve themselves. Antonio: Yes ... try to improve themselves. L: Okay. Let's go back around to you. What would you like to see a Hispanic young man or woman walk out of the exhibit thinking? What would you like to get across to them? LC: I think I would like them to walk out with a sense of pride Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 6 of being and a Mexicano ... or Mexicana ... Armando: I'm thinking the same thing. LC: Yeah ... I'm thinking the same way. (mixed conversation) LC: And I mean ... to see how ... you know ... their grandparents or their great-grandparents did. That's what I would like to see. L: You don't know how ........... say that. LC: Uh? L: You don't know how glad I am to hear that ... yes ... I've been trying not to lead that and say that ... but that's what I've been thinking ... that's been my own objective. What would you like to have the young German kid ... Anglo kid walk out with? LC: I would like them to walk out feeling that we're no difference ... just our cultures maybe a little different ... but we're just as American as any Polish ... German ... or whatever ... that's what I would like them to feel ... that we're just ... we're Americans ... we're just from Mexican heritage ... some of us ... some of us may be from Spanish ... L: Some of us from ... LC: ... I'm personally from Mexican ... because my mother was from Mexico. L: Now, how about you, Sister?Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 7 MM: Well, that's what I was thinking ... that I wish they would all leave saying ... that's my ancestry ... and I'm proud of it ... you know ... and be willing to carry it on. And I can say for myself ... when I first was sent out ... I was sent to El Paso ... as a young Sister ... and every ... all that culture was brand-new to me ... 'cause I came from Kentucky ... and I just thought it was all ... it was all different and new ... but I got see it was beautiful ... and I liked it all. And so if other people could get that same feeling of respect and just see what's different from what I know ... but it's sure nice ... so ... (laughter) L: You're saying understanding too ... MM: Uh-huh. L: ... mutual understanding ... respect ... this ... That's sort of what we've heard from a lot of folks and we've talked about it. But it gets difficult ... MM: How to do it. L: ... it gets ... how ... how do you do that? I had one gentleman tell me ... What do you want the Hispanic to walk out understanding and what do you want the message to be? ... and he said ... the message is I've been here 50 years ... I'm still here ... I've been kicked around ... beat up ... spit on ... and I'm still here ... and I'm still running ... and I'm still on top of things ... and I'm not going anywhere ... Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 8 you'd better understand me ... 'cause I'm not going to go away. And the kids just say ... Man, these people have been here a long time ... they've had it rough ... and look ... they're tough ... they're hanging in there ... they're proud ... and it's the pride thing ... no matter what I had to go through ... I'm still here ... and I'm not going to go anyplace ... so you'd better ... the pride thing. Armando: What do you think that the people in San Antonio are going to ... you know ... say about ... you know ... people from Lubbock ... you know? Are they really going to care about ... you know ... what really happened in Lubbock? You know ... because most of the people who're there are ... you know ... from the Valley ... from San Antonio ... ........ but do they really care ... you know ... that the people here ... the Hispanic people who came ... you know ... they're the ones that built the railroads ... they're the ones that laid the brick on the streets in downtown Lubbock ... they're the ones that laid the sewer ... sewer lines ... you know ... what are the people from San Antonio going to say about that? L: Well ... our overall objective is not tell the story of the people from Lubbock or from the people from San Antonio. We're trying to get an exhibit that will cover the experience of every area ... that's why we're going around the state. Armando: Okay ... how are you going to cover the Lubbock area? Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 9 I mean .... L: Well ... we're not going to have a section that says ... you know ... this is the Lubbock area ... but we're trying to make sure that what we tell people represents what your experiences here and what their's is ... and possibly ... you could say ... okay, in some areas of the state this is true ... and other areas like Lubbock this is true ... in the Valley this is true. We're trying to tell a story ... paint a picture that is not untruthful for Lubbock ... is not untrue for El Paso ... that tells the story for all people. And if it's not true ... it's obvious that the Lubbock experience is agricultural ... a lot of folks came here for work in agriculture. That's not necessarily true in San Antonio. Armando: Because I was ... I came down from Corpus Christi ... that's where we came from ... ............ and ... you know ... we ended up here because of the ......... ... you know ... ........ to work. L: I guess why we're here is so we can find out if we're saying something or thinking something that you disagree with. Armando: See ... that's what I'd like to know ... what the people in San Antonio are going to say about the people in Lubbock? L: Uh ... if we tell 'em ... if we do this in the right way ... they aren't going to know we're telling ... we're talking Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 10 to people in Lubbock ... we're talking about the people ... and what we say should be true. What would make you unhappy? What would you say if you saw it and you'd say ... I don't like that. That's not true for Lubbock. Do you have an example of what would upset ... what you would not like to see? Armando: Here in Lubbock you know ... we've experienced a lot of prejudice ... you know ... a lot of discrimination ... in that series that I did I talked to a lot of people ... you know ... I talked about discriminaton ... and nowadays ... you know ... you still see it ... you know. People ... I don't think the people in San Antonio will see the prejudice or the discrimination that goes on here. L: I see where you're going ... yes. Armando: ....... LC: But this is really just to ... it's going to be ... for like people that go to San Antonio on vacation and they're going to go and visit this ... ..: Exhibit. LC: ... heritage center or exhibit or museum ... isn't that what this is ... or not necessarily? L: No, not necessarily. We're part of the State of Texas. The state gives us some of our funding. We get the rest by various means ... working ... selling ... whatever ... sell books. But we're part of the State and we're obligated to tell Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 11 the story of the state ... not just San Antonio. LC: Uh-huh. L: The story of the state ... the entire state. And if somebody comes from Lubbock and looks at this thing ... they shouldn't go away saying ... That's untrue ... that is not the way it is at Lubbock ... or at Houston ... or at Dallas ... or whatever. LC: No. That's what mean ... that it's telling the story to anybody that goes there. L: Everybody ... anybody ... absolutely. LC: They may not necessarily be from ... even Texas ... L: They may be from Spain ... they may be from Germany ... a lot of them from Mexico. We have a lot of traffic from Mexico ... especially during the shopping season. Armando: San Antonio is a tourist town. L: Tourist mecca ... yes. And our streets and our malls reflect that ... you can't get around it. But ... yes ... you're right ... the story is for everybody. We're trying tell a story that is accurate ... is accurate as we can make it ... about the Texas-Hispanic experience. That was the way it is. Armando: Okay. ........ L: That's the way it is. Armando: That's ....... experience that ... you know ... we may wish ........... ... mostly my grandparents or parents that Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 12 came down ... or were up here ... they were the ones that experienced that discrimination back then. And I don't know whether the people in San Antonio or down in the Valley have experienced that. See it's different you know ... and ........ Antonio: ....... more Mexicanos ........ Armando: ... because ... L: Yes. Armando: ... because ... I don't know ... like I said ... that's something that I know ... that's something that I would like to know ... maybe from their perspective ... L: We have asked them ... we have heard them ... we've asked the question to find out ... in the Valley for example ... Do you folks see discrimination in the Valley? Armando: What do they say? L: They said ... Yes. But it's not ethnic discrimination ... it's class discrimination ... it's the rich versus the poor ... you know. Armando: Yeah. The same kind of discrimination that's here. L: I'm poor and you're rich ... so I'm going to get out of the way when you go by. And it doesn't ... the Mexicano ... Anglo ... gringo ... doesn't seem to have a lot of effect on that. There are a lot of rich Americanos that are high class and they ... LC: Discriminate ........Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 13 ..: ............ L: ... have the same ... you know ... discrimination is a human thing I believe. I think it is probably something that in some people's mind that like to feel big ... to say ... I'm better than that person becuase he's ... fill in the blank ... he's small ... he's big ... he's fat ... he's skinny ... he's White ... he's Black ... it's something ... some people like to feel bigger by knocking somebody else down. And that's probably not going to go away ever. Antonio: That's what happened with Mexico. Armando: Yeah. Antonio: A big class people ... you know ... the campesinos ... they don't care ... Armando: .......... different ........ L: And there's problems down there ... yeah ... different kinds. We're not trying so make this exhibit deal with discrimination ... but it's not something that we can hide ... 'cause it's there ... it's not going to go away because we don't show it. So we're trying to really tell the story. And I guess we're asking ... how would you tell the story? We don't have long enough to get ... we could talk all day about this I guess ... and she's going to come get me in about 20 minutes. MM: Well ... there's people with family and there are people with music and people with color ... you know ... that's what Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 14 I see. L: The good things ... the good things. MM: (laughter) Uh-huh. L: And that's what we've seen also ... that's the good side of the equation. That's ... I guess that's where the understanding comes in ... what is quote unquote the Tejano culture? What ... okay ... let me ask that question ... what trait or traits do you think are binding or common to Tejanos ... a Tejano from Texline versus Lubbock versus El Paso versus Corpus Christi versus Edinburg ... what traits are you going find in the Tejano community in all of those? What's common to those? Armando: I think that the music really binds us together. L: Music ... yes. Armando: ........ ... the language ... you know ... the Spanish language ... 'cause ... I mean ... I think that's second ... L: It varies from the Valley to here ... but we're still talking about Spanish ... Spanish ... you know ... that's a lot of things ... Armando: Like Tex-Mex ... you know ... L: Yeah. Armando: ... but ... there's a couple of things that ... you know ... kind of binds ... music ... and ... you know ... the Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 15 family ... you know ... with the family ......... ... real close ... you know. MM: Because you go far ... you know ... for ... to visit someone who's sick ... whereas we might not go that far. L: Or to a birthday party for a grandmother? Yes. MM: Uh-huh. So families are so important. L: It is. What would you say would be common to Tejanos from all over the state? What is a binding factor? Antonio: Binding factor? Music. Like recently they came up with that Tejano music ........... ... L: Uh-huh. Antonio: ... and boy they pack ... they pack and bind together ... families ... yeah ... (laughter) ... L: But beyond the music and the family ... what ... Antonio: I think religion. L: And the religion. Antonio: Religion. L: Would you say Catholicism or would you say religion in general? I know we're in a Catholic church ... but not all Hispanics are Catholics ... there's a lot ... ..: ........ ..: ........ L: Lutherans and what .... ..: ..........Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 16 L: Would you say religion in general or would you say Catholicism was the binding factor? Armando: I would say religion in general. See like right here ... in this area ... the majority or 80 percent of the Catholics are Hispanics. L: I read the paper by Yolando Romero that addresses that ... it says the Catholic church ... when the Hispanics came ... when the Mexicans came here from across the border ... and the Mexican-Americans came here from the Valley looking for opportunities ... looking for freedom ... looking for relief from the wars or economic problems ... they had problems ... they banded together and what was here ... what they found that kept them together was the Catholic church. Antonio: Catholic church. L: That's what they said. Yes. But what other factors ... is there another factor we haven't talked about that you'd say is a common denominator? Antonio: I don't know of any ... I mean I can't think of any right now. L: Okay. Well, let's keep talking and think about it maybe ... how about you Lillie, what do you think? LC: I would think the food. (laughter) L: Okay. Food. LC: Yes.Tejano Community Meetings - Lubbock, Texas David LaRo (Tape 2 of 2) 17 L: Yes. LC: Because ... I mean ... you know ... like at Christmas time everybody has tamales. (laughter) Most of them. This is where ... here in Lubbock is where I learned how to make tamales. Because my husband's family all made tamales and that's what we had. L: My wife ran into a German family ... LC: At Christmas and New Year ... so ... (laughter) L: My wife ran into a German family ... she's learning some of the customs because of her family ... because that family is very ......... oriented. They get together every year after Christmas and make sausage ... the whole family ... brothers and sisters ... they all come with deer-meat ... sausage ... and they spend the day ... a week-end ... making sausage. So it's ... food is a binding thing ... and with the Tejanos ... yes, it certainly is. But ... and we've talked about religion and food and music and family ... the traditions would emcompass some of this ... the quinceaneras ... the family traditions ... the cultural tradition ... that's not a German tradition ... it's pretty uniquely Hispanic. What else would you ... can you think of something else? We've tried to find some of these elements that we can use to tell the story without ... you know ... trying

Interview with Stella Polk, 1992

Sister of Old Yeller author, Frank Gipson and life-long resident of Mason County, Stella Polk began teaching at age 16 in a small rural school circa 1917. She relates her personal history, experiences teaching in one-room schools, and memories of early Mason County which she also had published in books and newspaper columns.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEW WITH: Stella Polk DATE: 1 May 1992 PLACE: Ranch Home, Northern Mason County, Texas INTERVIEWER: David LaRo L: I am David LaRo. I'm with the Institute of Texan Cultures and I'm interviewing today Stella Gipson Polk. We're interviewing at her ranch home in northern Mason County on a beautiful spring day. The sun is shining outside and we're looking out under the yard oaks at the pasture out there toward the tank...just to give you a feeling of what it's like up here right now. Stella is not only a country schoolteacher, but she's written several books. The most recent book is titled For All Those Pupils Whose Lives Touched Mine, published by A&M Press about three years ago. She still writes a weekly column, "Ranch News", for the Mason newspaper. She contributes a similar column to the Marble Falls Picayune. She is the sister of the late Fred Gipson, author of several children's books and books on Mason County, including Old Yeller. I've been told that Fred was once asked, "Why do you only write about Mason County?" His reply was, "Because that's all I know anything about." P: (Laughter) L: Contains a powerful message, doesn't it? Stella authored L: Mason and Mason County: A History, published by Pemberton Press and then reissued by Eaken. It's now out of print and POLK 2 it's very scarce, but it is not the usual "county history/genealogy" book. It is a well-researched history book. Stella, like her brother, writes about what she knows best, and that's what makes her writing good. Stella and I will be talking about "early days, education in a rural Texas Hill Country community." There's so much she can tell us about small Hill Country schools that darned few people still know anymore. L: Stella, I'll bet you were born in Mason county, weren't you? P: I sure was. The first Gipson to be born in Mason County. L: Care to tell me what year? P: 90...1901. L: 1901. Where did you finish high school? P: At Mason. The old grammar school, they called it. It still stands there. It's a...going to be a museum now. L: I've been there! What year did you finish high school? P: 1918. L: 1918. How many grades were you required to go through at that time in order to get a high school diploma? P: Eleven, I think. Now it's twelve, and I think then it was eleven. L: Well, I guess you lived with your family all during your school years. P: Uh huh...yes. L: Who were your family? POLK 3 P: [Going back to previous question]...Except the summer I spent at San Marcos. L: Okay; that was after you graduated. Who were your family? How many brothers and sisters did you have? P: Well, my family was Beck and Emma Gipson. My family came from Winnsboro, Texas, and my older sister, Jenny, was born in Winnsboro. L: Winnsboro. Your father was Beck, b-e-c-k? P: B-e-c-k. Beckton, of course, was his name. Beckton. That's where the son...uh, grandson...gets his name - Fred's boy. Well, my father contracted such serious arthritis, or let's call it rheumatic fever, I think they called it. And the doctor told him if he didn't get out of that climate around Winnsboro - you know how damp and all - he just couldn't live. My mother always dreamed that maybe someday she could go and live where they had hills. She longed for a place where they had lots of hills. So, we...they started out in that covered wagon. What else did they have in those days? And they stopped at Beaumont and stayed there a while because my grandparents - my maternal grandparents - were there. My sister, Bessie, was born there. L: That's the one sister, Bessie. P: Uh huh. No; Jenny, you see, was the first one. D: Okay. Jenny? P: Uh huh. L: And then Bessie... POLK 4 P: Bessie. L: And who was next? P: I would have been, but I hadn't gotten there yet. L: Okay. P: Then they came on and they stopped - almost stopped for good - at College Station. We've always wondered what our history would have been like. L: Well, you would have cheated us out of a lot of good books from Mason County, wouldn't you? P: [Laughter] And then we came on - he came on and strangely enough...I'm going to add this because it's a family history. Mama had a big rawhide trunk. She wanted to take something to her new neighbors. And she thought, "Well, why not pack a group of alligator eggs?" So she packed them in that big trunk. Well, I don't know how long it took them to get to Mason County because my daddy stopped and worked, sometimes, on the way. When they got to Mason County and got to where they could open up the trunk, it was full of baby alligators. [Laughter] L: Oh, my gosh! What a present to give your neighbors! Oh, man. So, you had, uh...when you got here, you were born, and later Fred. Were there any others between you and Fred? Or was Fred the baby of the crowd? P: Ethel was my...I lost her so early, in l936, we lost P: Ethel. L: So, Ethel was before you or after you? POLK 5 P: Ethel was born after I was. I was born in Mason, Ethel was born in Mason, Fred...all of them were born in Mason. That is, their home life was in Mason. L: So, altogether I've got five of you kids? P: Seven. L: Seven...who were the two I've missed? I've got Jenny and Bessie and you, and then Ethel and Fred. There's some in between? P: That's five. Cricket - or Christiana. L: Oh, Cricket I've met. And who else? P: Charles. He was the baby. L: Oh, Charles was the baby. I don't know why I had it in mind Fred was. Okay, we're going to talk about schools. Where did you first teach school? P: At Hilda. I had planned, when I came home from San Marcos that summer, I was going to enter the university. But time does strange things. That was in the first World War and they took very, very few women for anything then. And my brother-in-law was Lee Loeffler, L-O-E-F-F-L-E-R, and my sister, Jenny - the two of them were teaching at Hilda. L: Hilda is a little community, about twenty miles south of here? P: Uh huh. That's right. You know where it was. Well, Lee didn't want to go off to war unless I would consent to teach P: with Jenny. I didn't much want to. I wanted to go to the university. Well, I thought maybe I wouldn't pass the POLK 6 examinations. I had just come out of school, and it wasn't a bit of problem to pass those examinations. So, of course, I got it. I was sixteen years old when I started teaching there. Oh, my goodness. L: So, you had no time for college. You went right out of high school to teaching? How did you get certified to teach at the age of sixteen? P: They gave teachers' examinations. The...I guess you'd call it the...well, it would be the school board. Whatever you would call it, maybe you could call it. L: In Austin? P: Uh huh, in Austin. L: State Teachers'... P: They put out those examinations. They thought very few people could pass them, but...I have an idea they needed more teachers. I wasn't...that...wonderful. But Jenny had always taught the primary and Lee had taught the others. They were both - I don't know exactly about degrees and all, but they both had attended San Marcos Normal. And Jenny couldn't teach algebra because she had always taught those little ones. Well, Stella fell...well, she fell heir to algebra. It didn't bother me because I'd just come out of high school. It would bother me now. Well, I had three boys almost my age. One of them was a little older than I was. Do you want the story or P: not? L: Sure! Do I look like I'm going to sleep? POLK 7 P: No! I just wanted to know. Anyway, I had never given an examination or anything...and I had taught those little ones until I turned out in time for the boys to come for their algebra. And they were very polite, very nice boys. They could hardly get in those little desks, but they managed. Well, we had algebra. I thought I was a pretty good teacher. They knew...oh yes, they wrote their paper so nicely. But that's all they wrote! Finally, I gave a test. That was the first test I had ever given in my life, and I don't think I made it hard. But those boys sat there, politely, smiling. I said, "Boys, don't you know any of the answers?" They admitted they didn't. I'm ashamed to tell this - I helped them with their test. Oh! They were the most grateful boys you ever saw. The only thing that ruined it, I was dating one of those boys' older brother, and he spilled the beans. He said they were laughing all over the country about that little old teacher they had. They wouldn't have to study algebra now. She would...if they looked sad...she would help them. You have heard that old saying about...what is it? Heaven help the woman that...well, it's a... L: Something about...a woman scorned? P: A woman scorned. Well, I was a woman scorned. I really drilled them on that algebra. They were just so sweet and nice and polite. I put it on the board - that's what they P: used all those pretty blackboards for, then. And one of them made "5"; the other two couldn't pass anything. They just POLK 8 wrote their heading. I took up the papers. And I guess that's what comes of a...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. That's right! L: Okay. P: Well, Lee came back in the spring and, of course, he wanted back into his school. I had come to love those little pupils, and I didn't want to leave them, but I did. I left. Then I went to Fly Gap later that year. L: Before we leave Hilda, let me ask you a question. I would like to try to put this in perspective. You went there in 1918? P: Uh huh. L: I looked this up, and I find that's just barely seventy years after old John Meusebach had signed the Indian treaty - seventy years later. P: What was his name? L: John Meusebach. P: Oh, Meusebach. Yeah. That's right. L: This was seventy years after he had signed the treaty with the Indians to bring the Germans in here. P: That's exactly right. That goes in there. L: Was Mason County still pretty "German" in 1918? P: All German, that I knew. But, you see, my parents had come to that part of the Hill Country when it was hardly P: settled at all. And they were what they called "Anglos". The Germans were..."the German" part of Mason. Well you know, POLK 9 of course, it didn't go too well - two different sections. But anyway, you don't want to get into the Mason County War, I don't guess, although it had already happened, before my parents got there. They were through with it by then. All but the feelings. The feelings were there as long as I lived. When I wrote the Mason Pageant, they almost had the war again. So, they had me cut a lot of it out. [Laughter] L: When you taught at Hilda, did you live in that community - the Hilda community? P: Yes. My...Jenny's parents-in-law had a two-story building. Now, Germans at that time were living well. They had lived that long. They came in about '49. You see, that was 1918, and they had done well. Even a few of them had bought a few cars, but they couldn't drive them for the roads were so awful. So they put them up on blocks. And kept them. [Laughter] L: I was going to ask about that. How far was the two-story house where you lived from the schoolhouse? P: I imagine about a mile and a half. L: How did you get to school every day? P: You know...you know how it is when two people walk? L: Shank's mare? P: We walked. L: Did you have to cross any hills or mountains or rivers or L: creeks to get to school every day? POLK 10 P: We had to cross...right at...almost...just right at where they lived was Beaver Creek. A beautiful Beaver Creek, then. And I always thought, "That creek sings a song." Well, it didn't sing a song until I got through with those boys - teaching them algebra. But, after that, I felt so good about everything, I could just feel old Beaver Creek singing a song. Oh, it was a beautiful thing, then. L: [Laughter] Is Beaver Creek still running? I saw it, coming up here. P: It's still there. It has suffered from the drought. And what hurt me, when Lee died...Jenny and her children didn't quite agree on things, so they sold that. Their home. The home was just a German home, but that creek! They had a lot of that creek, but it didn't mean anything much to them. My son was a great pal of theirs, hers, and it just broke his heart when they sold out. He just loved Beaver Creek. It's still there. L: You've told me that the Germans were in that community, most of them were fairly well off. They had nice places. P: They had begun to. They had really suffered their suffering from coming across the ocean...and landing there. L: Did they have rock homes? P: Most of them had rock homes, or they had good homes. And their church house there is very nice now. And their cemetery where my sister, her husband, and the little baby girl are... L: Your sister, Jenny, is buried down there? POLK 11 P: What? L: Your sister, Jenny? P: Uh huh. L: I was gonna ask about transportation. You've said some of 'em had cars, but they were up on blocks. I guess that's because of the war and they couldn't get tires and gas? How'd they get around? P: Well, the roads were just so bad...they just mired down - the tires did. And they couldn't travel for the roads. It just rained and rained and rained, and they had no...they had no pavement. They didn't know what that was. No, that was the reason and, of course, they were very particular about their cars. They came in wagons, they came in buggies - to church. Or, they came in what they called hacks or surries. L: I'm familiar with those. How many children were in this first class in Hilda - the primaries that you were teaching? P: I don't think I had but two. L: Two? A boy and a girl? P: Two little girls...I want to say...were the first grade at Hilda. All I can remember. L: And then you had the algebra class with the bigger kids. P: Yes! But, no, they had the pastor's little boy. I know ...I remember him for this reason: I had...as I had the first grade, I asked them, "If you had a nickel or a dime, which would you give up and which would you keep?" And he gave me P:POLK 12 an answer that stumped me. He said, "Well, I'd give up my dime and keep the nickel." And I said, "Well, why?" "Well, now, I know they'd tell me that a dime was better, but a dime's just a little old thing and a nickel's pretty good-size money." L: And he was a first grader? P: He still wrote to me...a long time after that. He lived in Fredericksburg. He died, now. Well, and then...from then on, I can't remember now, but it was like first, second, third and fourth. But there wouldn't be but three or four pupils. L: In each grade, you mean? P: One was...I don't guess you've ever heard of him, but he was a famous lawyer, I mean a doctor, Elmer Wiederman. You wouldn't know anything about him. I think he's still alive, maybe. I believe he's in...I don't know...maybe Junction. I don't know. Anyway, I know that my husband and I were eating lunch at a cafeteria in Junction. Some little boy or girl just kept watching us. Finally, she came over there and she said, "Do you see my daddy back there?" Well, I happened to notice that was Dr. Elmer Wiederman. It was his little girl. Of course, he was really bragging to her about what a perfect student he was. She said, "Do you mind telling me," said, "was my Daddy that perfect?" And I said, "Well, you go back and tell your daddy that he couldn't spell." Oh, she was so happy! She went back there, and he waved at me. He got a kick out of that, of course. But, I wrote...Elmer wrote me P: quite some time. POLK 13 But I don't remember...I've lost track of him. But I kinda think he came to the Mason...when their graduation class had their celebration...I think he came then, so... L: In this community and the others...but right now, this one...where did you get your schoolbooks? Did each of the children have a schoolbook? P: Had to get what? L: A textbook. P: We had to buy our textbooks. L: Did each child have one or did the teacher have the only one? P: No. As a rule, we could manage some way to get the children...well now, some of them, they didn't have them all. I know Ranch Branch didn't have all the geographies and everything. L: What subjects was you teaching...I'm sorry, were you teaching these children at Hilda? What subjects did you actually teach? I mean, did you have it broken down into different classes? P: Well, yes. And the biggest problem that I faced...my little two first graders couldn't speak a word of English. L: What did they speak? P: German. Oh, you have no idea. Their churches were in German. I felt sorry for my sister. I said,"How can you stand it?" "Oh, I just listen to the songs and enjoy that; P:POLK 14 and, then, I plan the next week's work that I'm going to do. (Laughter) L: That's a good story. Did you have problems in l9l8 with children who came to school speaking German, like we had problems, and still do, with children who come to school speaking only Spanish? Were they forbidden to speak German in the schools? P: The trustees decided that they should not teach...uh, allow...any German in schools, for this reason...which wouldn't have affected the little ones...but they said those grown boys and all - knowing that the two teachers didn't know a word of German - that they could talk just as they wished to, and we had to stop that. L: Mischief! Can you recall what the school building in Hilda looked like? P: Yes, I think I can. I think it was mostly lumber. And I think, later on, it was made...I believe it was a mixture, now, of concrete and lumber. It's still down there. L: It's still there. This wasn't a true "one-room" school, because you taught part of the kids and your sister taught part. P: Yes, that was the only one-room school that the...apparently that ACS (sic) didn't seem to mind, because, you see, I opened school, then. I almost had to use that. L: You opened it? P: Well, what I mean, when I started teaching, I began P: there. ASCS...oh, not ASCS, goodnight nurse! They wanted POLK 15 "one-room" schools, you see. I taught other schools. I taught...I was principal over at Katemcy - two story, three- teacher school. It was a big school. Ninety-nine students. L: Two story, three-teacher...that was a big school. P: That's right. But, *they didn't want that, so I didn't use it. (Note: "they" refers to A&M Press, in recent book.) L: I'm sure that in l9l8 and in l992, the basic problems that schoolteachers face is still the same thing - how do you get that little brain to decide to learn? P: (Laughter) L: Do you recall, or can you think of any problems that were really unique to that school? That you wouldn't have today? P: You mean, in those little schools? L: Well, in this little school in the Hilda community. Was there anything there that was really unusual that you wouldn't find today? Other than the children speaking German. P: Well, I did something that I should have been fired for. Maybe you better put that. I couldn't stand to see those little children standing around smiling...didn't know a word of...it was awful! All day long, five days a week, [they] couldn't say a word because they didn't know anything but German. They could read beautifully, but they didn't know what they were reading. L: That still happens today, doesn't it? P: It does? L: Yes. POLK 16 P: Well, now...if you tell that on me now, I think it'll be all right. L: Okay. We're gonna put it in the paper, and we'll let somebody worry about it. P: I took those little children to the far end of the school ground...and I couldn't speak very well to them...but I made them understand we were going to have a playhouse. They brought their little stove, their doll and all, and I helped them line with rocks, and all, their playhouse. And it didn't show from the building. And I don't care whether I did right or wrong, the happiness on their faces was all I asked. They could talk German there, don't you see? L: You gave 'em a little place to go during their recess and lunch where they could talk German. P: Yes, uh huh. That's right. L: Well, I'm glad there are still teachers like you around, that care more about people than rules. P: One of those first graders is an old great-grandmother now. Sometimes she remembers me when she...used to write to me, I don't know. In time, it gets where they don't. Kids don't ever forget, and I don't ever forget. I remembered more things in Ranch Branch than any place, because I taught there six years. You see, at Hilda... L: How long were you at Hilda? That's a good question here. Were you there one year or two years? POLK 17 P: Where? L: At Hilda. P: I didn't finish the first year. You see, Hilda came back in the...I mean, Lee came back. L: You mean, he came back before the year was out? P: Oh, yes. L: And he took his job back? And you... P: He took his job back, and I went on. L: Where did you go from there? P: Now, I really did go on to spend a few months at Streeter - to finish out something - but, it was a two-teacher school, and I didn't teach long enough. Then I went to Fly Gap. L: Now, I've looked it up. That's two words, FLY GAP. Can you tell me where it got its name? That's got to interest somebody. P: They were...that was during the time when all the men were in the army. And the Indians were terrible, even at that time, of course. And, you see, when they took the men out of circulation, it was hard on the women and the little boys and all, in some places. And they would, they had a...they formed what was known as a...oh, I can't think, right now. It was...they formed an organization. Even the old men helped with that, too. To help prote

High-precision motion system design by topology optimization considering additive manufacturing

In the design process of high-precision motion stages, the dynamic behavior is of paramount importance. Manual design of such a stage is a time-consuming process, involving many iterations between engineers responsible for mechanics, dynamics and control. By using topology optimization in combination with additive manufacturing, post-processing using traditional machining and parts assembly, it is possible to arrive at an optimal design in an automated manner. The printing, machining, and assembly steps are incorporated in the optimization in order to directly arrive at a manufacturable design. With a motion stage demonstrator optimized for maximum eigenfrequencies, it is shown that combining additive manufacturing and topology optimization at industry-relevant design precision is within reach and can be applied to high-performance motion systems.</p

L'impacte de la implantació romana entre les comunitats lacetanes i traces de presència itàlica a la zona durant el segle II aC (Sant Miquel de Sorba i Castellvell d'Olius)

Del 1996 al 2017, ha estat vigent el projecte titulat «Estratègies d'ocupació del territori i la seva evolució a la comarca del Solsonès durant la protohistòria i l'antiguitat», reformulat amb el títol «Estratègies d'ocupació del territori al Solsonès i Bages (Lacetània) durant la protohistòria i l'antiguitat» en els dos darrers programes de recerca quadriennal, els de 2018-2021 (CLT009/17/00016) i 2022-2025 (PNNHJB50G). Tots han estat finançats pel Departament de Cultura de la Generalitat de Catalunya, amb el cofinançament d'altres administracions i entitats com són l'Ajuntament d'Olius, l'Ajuntament de Solsona i el Grup Mas Constructors.Les excavacions del Centre d'Estudis Lacetans (CEL) als jaciments de Sant Miquel de Sorba i Castellvell d'Olius han permès obtenir noves dades sobre el període ibèric tardà al territori lacetà. Es tracta d'assentaments amb una ocupació intensa i renovada al llarg dels segles II-I aC, que han proporcionat abundant material arqueològic, el qual inclou interessants lots de ceràmiques importades o d'objectes considerats com a militaria. A partir d'aquí, es planteja una reflexió sobre la naturalesa d'aquests nuclis ibèrics tardans i la interpretació de la seva funció en relació amb la dinàmica d'implantació romana a la zona.Excavations carried out by the Centre d'Estudis Lacetans at the sites of Sant Miquel de Sorba and Castellvell d'Olius have provided new data on the late Iberian period in the Lacetan area. These are sites that were intensively and repeatedly occupied throughout the second and first centuries BC. They have provided abundant archaeological material, including interesting collections of imported pottery and objects considered to be militaria. This leads to a reflection on the nature of these late Iberian settlements and the interpretation of their function in relation to Roman occupation in the area.Las excavaciones del Centre d'Estudis Lacetans (CEL) en los yacimientos de Sant Miquel de Sorba y Castellvell d'Olius han permitido obtener nuevos datos sobre el periodo ibérico tardío en el territorio lacetano. Se trata de asentamientos con una ocupación intensa y renovada a lo largo de los siglos II-I a. C., que han proporcionado abundante material arqueológico, el cual incluye interesantes lotes de cerámicas importadas o de objetos considerados como militaria. A partir de aquí, se plantea una reflexión sobre la naturaleza de estos núcleos ibéricos tardíos y la interpretación de su función en relación con la dinámica de implantación romana en la zona