McCartin, James P.

English

epublications@Marquette

Conversations on Jesuit Higher EducationVolume 49 Jesuit Higher Education in a GlobalContext Article 48September 2016A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interviewwith Elzabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartinJames P. McCartinFollow this and additional works at: http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversationsRecommended CitationMcCartin, James P. (2016) "A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interview with Elzabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartin,"Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education: Vol. 49 , Article 48.Available at: http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversations/vol49/iss1/4836 CONVERSATIONS ON JESUIT HIGHER EDUCATION                                                                                                                                          So much has been said about PopeFrancis’ “Laudato Si’.” But is theresome aspect of the encyclical that youthink is overlooked or undercoveredin all the attention it has attracted?The religious value of plants andanimals in their own right hasnot received sufficient attention.I think this is at the root of theencyclical’s spiritual vision andethical challenge. For centuriesCatholic teaching placed hu-mans at the pinnacle of creationwith the God-given right to havedominion over other creatureswho were made for our use. Uti-lizing the classical idea of thegreat chain of being, this teach-ing took the world to be hierar-chically ordered from inanimatematter at the base, then upwardto plants, to animals, to humanbeings at the peak. In the En-lightenment era of the 16th and17th centuries, when Europeannations began to colonize othercontinents, their aggressive en-trepreneurial culture turned es-pecially destructive to thenatural world. The classical viewallowed imperial cultures to in-terpret dominion as dominationwithout ecclesial protest.In very strong language,“Laudato Si’” criticizes the tradi-tional view as “inadequate” andfrankly “wrong.” Why? Because itpasses on a Promethean vision ofhuman mastery over the world.Today, however, we need to envi-sion a new way of being humanthat will enhance rather than di-minish the life of other creatureswith whom we share a commonhome. Instead of dominating na-ture, we need to see that all crea-tures share life together on thisplanet in “one splendid universalcommunion” - “una stupenda co-munione universale” (No. 220).In light of this old paradigm ofhuman dominion over creation,what would you say is the mostnoteworthy theological contributionof the encyclical?In view of the church’s long ac-ceptance of matter-spirit dualismand the paradigm of dominion,Pope Francis recognizes that heis contributing something new toCatholic teaching by emphasiz-ing the community of creation.“Laudato Si’” states that even if“we Christians have at times in-correctly interpreted the Scrip-tures, nowadays we mustforcefully reject the notion thatour being created in God’simage and given dominion overthe earth justifies absolute domi-nation over other creatures”(No.67). Instead, he writes, “weare called to recognize that otherliving beings have a value oftheir own in God’s eyes” (No.69). He continues, “In our timethe Church does not simply statethat other creatures are com-pletely subordinate to the goodof human beings, as if they hadno worth in themselves and canbe treated as we wish” (No. 69).Rather, “They have an intrinsicvalue independent of their useful-ness” (No. 140). And why? Be-cause God loves them. “Even thefleeting life of the least of beings isthe object of God’s love, and in itsfew seconds of existence, God en-folds it with affection” (No. 77).A Theologian Looksat “Laudato Si’”An Interview with Elizabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartin1McCartin: A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interview with Elzabeth JPublished by e-Publications@Marquette, 2016Other species, furthermore,are bearers of revelation. Each one“reflects in its own way a ray ofGod’s infinite wisdom and good-ness” (No. 69). Each is a placewhere we can encounter God;since the Spirit of life dwells inthem, they are a “locus of divinepresence,” calling us into relation-ship with God (No. 88). Ulti-mately, we human beings have theresponsibility to care for all otherspecies because “the final purposeof other creatures is not to befound in us. Rather, all creaturesare moving forward, with us andthrough us, towards a commonpoint of arrival, which is God”(No. 83). “Laudato Si’” carries thecommunity motif all the way tothe eschaton: “At the end we willfind ourselves face to face with theinfinite beauty of God”; “resplen-dently transfigured,” other crea-tures “will share with us inunending plenitude” (No. 243). If taken seriously by scholars, theparadigm shift Pope Francis proposes would have profound consequences, wouldn’t it?Absolutely. Shifting the model ofhuman-nature relationship frompyramid to circle, from a human-dominated hierarchy to creationas a community, has radical, far-reaching consequences. “Otherliving beings have a value oftheir own in God’s eyes”:                                                                                                                                                                                                               37Above left: Cardinal Turkson addresses guests as the keynotespeaker of the “Our Future on a Shared Planet Conference,” atSanta Clara University in November 2015.Above:  Rev. Sally Bingham, Rabbi Allan Berkowitz, Ameena Jandali, Linda Cutts and Cardinal Peter Turkson enter into dialoguearound the ways in which diverse communities can and are mobilizing around issues of climate justice.Left: Michael E. Engh, S.J., president of Santa Clara University, addresses public policy and the environmental teachings of PopeFrancis at the conference.Photo credit: Joanne LeeSanta Clara University Discusses the Planet2Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education, Vol. 49, Iss. 1 [2016], Art. 48http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversations/vol49/iss1/4838 CONVERSATIONS ON JESUIT HIGHER EDUCATION                                                                                                                                          philosophers and theologianshave much work to do here, toreconceive anthropology, ethics,and spirituality in this more in-clusive vein. Critics have accused the pope ofwading into scientific debates thatlie outside his realm of spiritual authority. What does this kind ofcriticism tell us about how peoplecurrently understand the relation-ship between science and faith?And what’s your own view on howthe encyclical integrates science?This criticism reveals a mental-ity that separates faith from rea-son, or religion from science,setting them in watertight com-partments that have little to dowith each other. But the Jew-ish-Christian understanding ofGod as Creator resists such di-vision. If the whole world isGod’s creation, then every-thing under the sun (and be-yond) is matter for theologicalreflection for everything has itsorigin, history, and goal withinthe embrace of divine love.This theocentric perspectivecalls for mutually respectfuldialogue between religion andscience, the latter figuring outhow the world works and theformer affirming its deepmeaning as a whole.The encyclical makes good,intelligent use of current sci-ence. I find especially powerfulits presentation of biological di-versity and the disaster of theextinction of species.Your 2014 book, Ask the Beasts:Darwin and the God of Love,has been recognized as a milestonein bringing Christian theologyinto a deep and sustained dialogwith ecology and environmentalscience. How have colleaguesspeaking from the scientific side ofthe dialog responded to your book?Not too many scientists haveengaged the book, but thosewho have are quite positive, todate. Case in point: one scienceprofessor at the University ofKansas who reviewed the booksaid he was going to use it in acourse, since students wouldbenefit from its clear account ofDarwin’s theory of evolution aswell as its demonstration thatfar from being opposed to reli-gion, evolutionary theory canspur religion to ethical action.Do you have a sense of how stu-dents are reacting to “Laudato Si’”or to your own writing on ecologyand theology?Graduate theology studentsseem to be taking to this subjectlike fish to water; ecologicalthemes are working their wayinto a diverse array of papersand dissertations. Undergradu-ate business majors have a hardtime with the economic sectionsof “Laudato Si’,” finding it hardto imagine how a successfulbusiness or the global economycan be run without profit as themain goal. Many other under-graduates resonate with the en-cyclical’s spirituality. Theysimply take for granted thateverything is connected, andenjoy the beauty of the visionas a whole.Seattle U Winter Catholic Heritage Lecture Photographer: Chris Kalinko. Copyright Seattle University.3McCartin: A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interview with Elzabeth JPublished by e-Publications@Marquette, 2016                                                                                                                                                                                                               39        You will notice that we havelaunched a new era for Conversa-tions.We now have access to fullcolor for all of our pages, and wehave significantly updated the lay-out. We calculate that the last timethis was done was about 15 yearsago. The new look and full colormean that we will be seeking morehigh quality photos for this and fu-ture issues. The Conversations boardis very grateful to Pauline Heaney,valiant layout editor, for providingthis new design which the board hada chance to review and to suggest al-ternatives at our April meeting atRockhurst University.        The new printing process, stillwith Peacock Communications, isweb-based so that our printing costsare actually reduced. Seems ironic,but it’s true. The slight down-side is that the trim of themagazine is about 1/4” lessthan it was before.        In addition, to the hard-copy changes, we now havea fresh new website up andrunning. Mounting this newsite has been a considerablechallenge since most of uson the board are “low tech.”In addition, we had tochange servers midstreamfrom Adventure Studios toSquare Space, which we be-lieve will be much more userfriendly and allow for fre-quent updates.        Currently, I am in dialogue with a Jesuitscholastic doing his theology studies to see whether hecan regularly monitor and updateour website and keep it fresh. Thewebsite will allow us to “continue theconversation” between issues and topublish certain features, such asYoutube takes, in a timely manner.        Thank you for your generoussupport and readership, and we al-ways appreciate hearing about howConversations is being used andwhich articles or issues you havefound most useful for advancing theJesuit Catholic mission at your uni-versity or college.        Best wishes and blessings forthis forthcoming academic year.Patrick Howell, S.J., chairNational Seminar on Jesuit HigherEducationBeyond ecology, what area of scien-tific inquiry do you think is most crucial for theology – and the human-ities more broadly, for that matter –to engage in the years ahead?Genetic research into the brain hastremendous potential to shift themeaning of what it means to be ahuman person with memory, un-derstanding, and will. Every disci-pline in the humanities, theologynot least of all, has a stake in mak-ing meaning of the outcomes ofthis research.What are you yourself working on rightnow? What’s your current project?Diving deeper into one chapter ofAsk the Beasts, I am currently re-searching the biblical idea of cosmicredemption for a monograph tenta-tively entitled “Creation and theCross.” The hope would be to de-velop further ecological theology’sunderstanding of how the wholenatural world will find its ultimatefuture in God, and “will share withus in unending plenitude.”Elizabeth Johnson, C.S.J., is Distin-guished Professor of theology at Ford-ham University and former presidentof both the Catholic Theological Soci-ety of America and the AmericanTheological Society. She is the authoror editor of 10 books, including Askthe Beasts: Darwin and the God ofLove (Bloomsbury, 2014).James P. McCartin is associate profes-sor of theology at Fordham Univer-sity, director of the Fordham Centeron Religion and Culture, and a for-mer member of the National Seminaron Jesuit Higher Education.Dear Conversationalists,www.conversationsmagazine.org4Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education, Vol. 49, Iss. 1 [2016], Art. 48http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversations/vol49/iss1/48

A Theologian Looks at  Laudato Si\u27 : An Interview with Elzabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartin

Conversations on Jesuit Higher EducationVolume 50 Article 22September 2016A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interviewwith Elzabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartinJames P. McCartinFollow this and additional works at: http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversationsRecommended CitationMcCartin, James P. (2016) "A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interview with Elzabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartin,"Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education: Vol. 50 , Article 22.Available at: http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversations/vol50/iss1/2236 CONVERSATIONS ON JESUIT HIGHER EDUCATION                                                                                                                                          So much has been said about PopeFrancis’ “Laudato Si’.” But is theresome aspect of the encyclical that youthink is overlooked or undercoveredin all the attention it has attracted?The religious value of plants andanimals in their own right hasnot received sufficient attention.I think this is at the root of theencyclical’s spiritual vision andethical challenge. For centuriesCatholic teaching placed hu-mans at the pinnacle of creationwith the God-given right to havedominion over other creatureswho were made for our use. Uti-lizing the classical idea of thegreat chain of being, this teach-ing took the world to be hierar-chically ordered from inanimatematter at the base, then upwardto plants, to animals, to humanbeings at the peak. In the En-lightenment era of the 16th and17th centuries, when Europeannations began to colonize othercontinents, their aggressive en-trepreneurial culture turned es-pecially destructive to thenatural world. The classical viewallowed imperial cultures to in-terpret dominion as dominationwithout ecclesial protest.In very strong language,“Laudato Si’” criticizes the tradi-tional view as “inadequate” andfrankly “wrong.” Why? Because itpasses on a Promethean vision ofhuman mastery over the world.Today, however, we need to envi-sion a new way of being humanthat will enhance rather than di-minish the life of other creatureswith whom we share a commonhome. Instead of dominating na-ture, we need to see that all crea-tures share life together on thisplanet in “one splendid universalcommunion” - “una stupenda co-munione universale” (No. 220).In light of this old paradigm ofhuman dominion over creation,what would you say is the mostnoteworthy theological contributionof the encyclical?In view of the church’s long ac-ceptance of matter-spirit dualismand the paradigm of dominion,Pope Francis recognizes that heis contributing something new toCatholic teaching by emphasiz-ing the community of creation.“Laudato Si’” states that even if“we Christians have at times in-correctly interpreted the Scrip-tures, nowadays we mustforcefully reject the notion thatour being created in God’simage and given dominion overthe earth justifies absolute domi-nation over other creatures”(No.67). Instead, he writes, “weare called to recognize that otherliving beings have a value oftheir own in God’s eyes” (No.69). He continues, “In our timethe Church does not simply statethat other creatures are com-pletely subordinate to the goodof human beings, as if they hadno worth in themselves and canbe treated as we wish” (No. 69).Rather, “They have an intrinsicvalue independent of their useful-ness” (No. 140). And why? Be-cause God loves them. “Even thefleeting life of the least of beings isthe object of God’s love, and in itsfew seconds of existence, God en-folds it with affection” (No. 77).A Theologian Looksat “Laudato Si’”An Interview with Elizabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartin1McCartin: A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interview with Elzabeth JPublished by e-Publications@Marquette, 2016Other species, furthermore,are bearers of revelation. Each one“reflects in its own way a ray ofGod’s infinite wisdom and good-ness” (No. 69). Each is a placewhere we can encounter God;since the Spirit of life dwells inthem, they are a “locus of divinepresence,” calling us into relation-ship with God (No. 88). Ulti-mately, we human beings have theresponsibility to care for all otherspecies because “the final purposeof other creatures is not to befound in us. Rather, all creaturesare moving forward, with us andthrough us, towards a commonpoint of arrival, which is God”(No. 83). “Laudato Si’” carries thecommunity motif all the way tothe eschaton: “At the end we willfind ourselves face to face with theinfinite beauty of God”; “resplen-dently transfigured,” other crea-tures “will share with us inunending plenitude” (No. 243). If taken seriously by scholars, theparadigm shift Pope Francis proposes would have profound consequences, wouldn’t it?Absolutely. Shifting the model ofhuman-nature relationship frompyramid to circle, from a human-dominated hierarchy to creationas a community, has radical, far-reaching consequences. “Otherliving beings have a value oftheir own in God’s eyes”:                                                                                                                                                                                                               37Above left: Cardinal Turkson addresses guests as the keynotespeaker of the “Our Future on a Shared Planet Conference,” atSanta Clara University in November 2015.Above:  Rev. Sally Bingham, Rabbi Allan Berkowitz, Ameena Jandali, Linda Cutts and Cardinal Peter Turkson enter into dialoguearound the ways in which diverse communities can and are mobilizing around issues of climate justice.Left: Michael E. Engh, S.J., president of Santa Clara University, addresses public policy and the environmental teachings of PopeFrancis at the conference.Photo credit: Joanne LeeSanta Clara University Discusses the Planet2Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education, Vol. 50, Iss. 1 [2016], Art. 22http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversations/vol50/iss1/2238 CONVERSATIONS ON JESUIT HIGHER EDUCATION                                                                                                                                          philosophers and theologianshave much work to do here, toreconceive anthropology, ethics,and spirituality in this more in-clusive vein. Critics have accused the pope ofwading into scientific debates thatlie outside his realm of spiritual authority. What does this kind ofcriticism tell us about how peoplecurrently understand the relation-ship between science and faith?And what’s your own view on howthe encyclical integrates science?This criticism reveals a mental-ity that separates faith from rea-son, or religion from science,setting them in watertight com-partments that have little to dowith each other. But the Jew-ish-Christian understanding ofGod as Creator resists such di-vision. If the whole world isGod’s creation, then every-thing under the sun (and be-yond) is matter for theologicalreflection for everything has itsorigin, history, and goal withinthe embrace of divine love.This theocentric perspectivecalls for mutually respectfuldialogue between religion andscience, the latter figuring outhow the world works and theformer affirming its deepmeaning as a whole.The encyclical makes good,intelligent use of current sci-ence. I find especially powerfulits presentation of biological di-versity and the disaster of theextinction of species.Your 2014 book, Ask the Beasts:Darwin and the God of Love,has been recognized as a milestonein bringing Christian theologyinto a deep and sustained dialogwith ecology and environmentalscience. How have colleaguesspeaking from the scientific side ofthe dialog responded to your book?Not too many scientists haveengaged the book, but thosewho have are quite positive, todate. Case in point: one scienceprofessor at the University ofKansas who reviewed the booksaid he was going to use it in acourse, since students wouldbenefit from its clear account ofDarwin’s theory of evolution aswell as its demonstration thatfar from being opposed to reli-gion, evolutionary theory canspur religion to ethical action.Do you have a sense of how stu-dents are reacting to “Laudato Si’”or to your own writing on ecologyand theology?Graduate theology studentsseem to be taking to this subjectlike fish to water; ecologicalthemes are working their wayinto a diverse array of papersand dissertations. Undergradu-ate business majors have a hardtime with the economic sectionsof “Laudato Si’,” finding it hardto imagine how a successfulbusiness or the global economycan be run without profit as themain goal. Many other under-graduates resonate with the en-cyclical’s spirituality. Theysimply take for granted thateverything is connected, andenjoy the beauty of the visionas a whole.Seattle U Winter Catholic Heritage Lecture Photographer: Chris Kalinko. Copyright Seattle University.3McCartin: A Theologian Looks at "Laudato Si'": An Interview with Elzabeth JPublished by e-Publications@Marquette, 2016                                                                                                                                                                                                               39        You will notice that we havelaunched a new era for Conversa-tions.We now have access to fullcolor for all of our pages, and wehave significantly updated the lay-out. We calculate that the last timethis was done was about 15 yearsago. The new look and full colormean that we will be seeking morehigh quality photos for this and fu-ture issues. The Conversations boardis very grateful to Pauline Heaney,valiant layout editor, for providingthis new design which the board hada chance to review and to suggest al-ternatives at our April meeting atRockhurst University.        The new printing process, stillwith Peacock Communications, isweb-based so that our printing costsare actually reduced. Seems ironic,but it’s true. The slight down-side is that the trim of themagazine is about 1/4” lessthan it was before.        In addition, to the hard-copy changes, we now havea fresh new website up andrunning. Mounting this newsite has been a considerablechallenge since most of uson the board are “low tech.”In addition, we had tochange servers midstreamfrom Adventure Studios toSquare Space, which we be-lieve will be much more userfriendly and allow for fre-quent updates.        Currently, I am in dialogue with a Jesuitscholastic doing his theology studies to see whether hecan regularly monitor and updateour website and keep it fresh. Thewebsite will allow us to “continue theconversation” between issues and topublish certain features, such asYoutube takes, in a timely manner.        Thank you for your generoussupport and readership, and we al-ways appreciate hearing about howConversations is being used andwhich articles or issues you havefound most useful for advancing theJesuit Catholic mission at your uni-versity or college.        Best wishes and blessings forthis forthcoming academic year.Patrick Howell, S.J., chairNational Seminar on Jesuit HigherEducationBeyond ecology, what area of scien-tific inquiry do you think is most crucial for theology – and the human-ities more broadly, for that matter –to engage in the years ahead?Genetic research into the brain hastremendous potential to shift themeaning of what it means to be ahuman person with memory, un-derstanding, and will. Every disci-pline in the humanities, theologynot least of all, has a stake in mak-ing meaning of the outcomes ofthis research.What are you yourself working on rightnow? What’s your current project?Diving deeper into one chapter ofAsk the Beasts, I am currently re-searching the biblical idea of cosmicredemption for a monograph tenta-tively entitled “Creation and theCross.” The hope would be to de-velop further ecological theology’sunderstanding of how the wholenatural world will find its ultimatefuture in God, and “will share withus in unending plenitude.”Elizabeth Johnson, C.S.J., is Distin-guished Professor of theology at Ford-ham University and former presidentof both the Catholic Theological Soci-ety of America and the AmericanTheological Society. She is the authoror editor of 10 books, including Askthe Beasts: Darwin and the God ofLove (Bloomsbury, 2014).James P. McCartin is associate profes-sor of theology at Fordham Univer-sity, director of the Fordham Centeron Religion and Culture, and a for-mer member of the National Seminaron Jesuit Higher Education.Dear Conversationalists,www.conversationsmagazine.org4Conversations on Jesuit Higher Education, Vol. 50, Iss. 1 [2016], Art. 22http://epublications.marquette.edu/conversations/vol50/iss1/22

https://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2042&amp;context=conversations

A Theologian Looks at Laudato Si\u27 : An Interview with Elzabeth Johnson, C.S.J., by James P. McCartin

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