In an interview with British Politics and Policy at LSE’s editor Joel Suss and EUROPP’s editor Stuart Brown, Amartya Sen discusses Thomas Piketty’s recent work, the consequences of widening inequality, and his views on India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, whose BJP party won the country’s 2014 general election

Brown, Stuart A.

Sen, Amartya

Suss, Joel

LSE Research Online

12/06/2014Five minutes with Amartya Sen: “I think that Piketty’sconclusions mostly stand”blogs.lse.ac.uk /europpblog/2014/06/12/five-minutes-with-amartya-sen-i-think-that-pikettys-conclusions-mostly-stand/In an interview with British Politics and Policy at LSE’s editor Joel Suss and EUROPP’s editor StuartBrown, Amartya Sen discusses Thomas Piketty’s recent work, the consequences of wideninginequality, and his views on India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi, whose BJP party won thecountry’s 2014 general election.Thomas Piketty and other academics have documented the growth in income and wealthinequality in many countries around the world, however the repercussions of wideninginequality are perhaps less well understood. What are your thoughts on the consequencesof inequality?These are good questions. Inequality has to be viewed not only in terms of its consequences, but also as somethingthat we have reason to disapprove of in its own right. So you have to go beyond the consequences. There’s anincrease in inequality in many countries in the world and we should be worried about that.You’ve mentioned Piketty’s work, and I know that there’s a debate over this subject, with Chris Giles at the FinancialTimes raising a number of questions about it. These are eminently discussable questions, but in any study of thiskind you have to use diverse sources of data, and it is inescapable that you have to establish certain linkages onwhich it is possible to have debates. Despite the elements of arbitrariness in the linkages, are the conclusions drawnfrom them fairly robust? I believe they are. I think that Piketty’s conclusions mostly stand. There are one or twoexceptions, including the fact that these conclusions probably apply a little less to the United Kingdom than to manyof the other countries which he discusses – they certainly apply to the United States very well. So I think that thesummary story that inequality has been growing quite sharply in recent decades, and in recent years in particular, istrue. We therefore have reason to worry as to whether this is acceptable socially, and also what the consequencesare.Now coming to the consequences, these very much depend on what kind of inequality we’re discussing. If youcompare for example China with India, the inequality level judged in terms of income distribution is no less in Chinathan in India – according to some measures it is even higher in China. But the fact that despite the inequality inChina there is close to 100 per cent literacy and nearly 100 per cent health coverage – at least of some kind — in away that doesn’t exist in India – means that inequality has had a more severe effect in India than it has in China. Onthe other hand, if you were to leave economics to one side and look at the distribution of political power, then ofcourse there you could identify some advantages on the Indian side: namely that because of democracy and multi-party politics, people have more opportunity to express their views and to choose among many different parties thanthey have in China. So you really have to look at the nature of the inequality we’re examining to be able to assesswhat its consequences should be.You have criticised Narendra Modi, the recently elected Indian Prime Minister, and his party for their Hindu-nationalist outlook. Did Modi’s decision to quickly invite the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, to hisinauguration surprise you?Was it a good move? Yes indeed, it was a very good move. Second, did it surprise me? No, it didn’t surprise mebecause it’s an intelligent move of a kind that Modi should be able to think of. Even though I’m critical of histendency to favour the majority Hindu community compared with minorities, and I am critical of the fact that, at leastin the past, he has tended to neglect – judging by the record of Gujarat – education and healthcare and has1/3concentrated only on physical infrastructure, I’ve never thought that Mr Modi isn’t a very intelligent man and capableof being pragmatic.The third point concerns a more difficult issue and is, in some sense, a more profound point to consider. When Indiawas partitioned, it was the Congress Party (and the Indian secularists) who claimed that there was no differencebetween Hindus and Muslims – that there wasn’t going to be a Hindu country and a Muslim country. The claim of thegreat leader of the Muslim League, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, was to say that there would be a Muslim Pakistan andthere should be a Hindu India. So if India moves to become more of a Hindu India now, then that would besomething which is quite acceptable to the Pakistan tradition of ‘we are Muslim Pakistan, you are Hindu India’. Modifits into that pattern much more easily.So in some ways, at that level of the Indo-Pakistan relationship, there isn’t any great problem in thinking of India asa Hindu India coming to terms with a Muslim Pakistan on an equitable basis. In the past, of course, the Indianposition has always been that they are not on a symmetric footing: that India is a secular country in a way thatPakistan has not tried to be. In Pakistan a dominant self-perception is that of being a Muslim nation in a way thatIndia’s perception is not that of being a Hindu nation. This is something that even Modi cannot change, and if he’spragmatic (and he can be expected to be that), he wouldn’t try to change that.Regarding the Indian relationship with Pakistan, I don’t expect a great tension there. However, India becoming moremilitaristically inclined may be a problem because that is certainly more of a BJP line. After all, it was they whoblasted the nuclear bomb in 1998 even though India had already done testing before in the mid-70s. There was noparticular need for India to do new detonations in 1998, but it gave Pakistan a good excuse to have their own – firsttime – blasts (not just on paper) citing India’s new round of actual testing.I hope this time, the BJP will be more careful with the relationship between India and Pakistan. The mere fact of anew view of a “Hindu India” meeting Muslim Pakistan is not going to be a problem in itself in terms of Indo-Pakistanirelations.The real issue concerns what happens inside India. It is not easy to make India – with its multi-religious mix, itssecular constitution – into just “a Hindu country.” There is a Supreme Court, a secular constitution, a media, ageneral public. Even though Modi and the BJP were very successful at the 2014 Indian general election, achievingvictory with over 50 per cent of the seats, they only received 31 per cent of the vote. The majority of Indians are notclamouring to live in a majoritarian Hindu country. That’s a very serious diagnosis to bear in mind.Please read our comments policy before commenting .Note: This article gives the views of the interviewee, and not the position of EUROPP – European Politics and Policy,nor of the London School of Economics.Shortened URL for this post: http://bit.ly/1hKkyIR _________________________________About the intervieweeAmartya Sen – Harvard UniversityAmartya Sen is Thomas W. Lamont University Professor, and professor of economics andphilosophy, at Harvard University. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1998 for hiscontributions to the study of fundamental problems in welfare economics. His most recent book isAn Uncertain Glory: India and Its Contradictions, co-authored with Jean Dreze. Professor Sen is anHonorary Fellow of the London School of Economics and Political Science.2/33/3

Five minutes with Amartya Sen: “I think that Piketty’s conclusions mostly stand”

Abstract

Similar works

Full text

Available Versions

LSE Research Online