Interview with Stella Polk, 1992

Sister of Old Yeller author, Frank Gipson and life-long resident of Mason County, Stella Polk began teaching at age 16 in a small rural school circa 1917. She relates her personal history, experiences teaching in one-room schools, and memories of early Mason County which she also had published in books and newspaper columns.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEW WITH: Stella Polk DATE: 1 May 1992 PLACE: Ranch Home, Northern Mason County, Texas INTERVIEWER: David LaRo L: I am David LaRo. I'm with the Institute of Texan Cultures and I'm interviewing today Stella Gipson Polk. We're interviewing at her ranch home in northern Mason County on a beautiful spring day. The sun is shining outside and we're looking out under the yard oaks at the pasture out there toward the tank...just to give you a feeling of what it's like up here right now. Stella is not only a country schoolteacher, but she's written several books. The most recent book is titled For All Those Pupils Whose Lives Touched Mine, published by A&M Press about three years ago. She still writes a weekly column, "Ranch News", for the Mason newspaper. She contributes a similar column to the Marble Falls Picayune. She is the sister of the late Fred Gipson, author of several children's books and books on Mason County, including Old Yeller. I've been told that Fred was once asked, "Why do you only write about Mason County?" His reply was, "Because that's all I know anything about." P: (Laughter) L: Contains a powerful message, doesn't it? Stella authored L: Mason and Mason County: A History, published by Pemberton Press and then reissued by Eaken. It's now out of print and POLK 2 it's very scarce, but it is not the usual "county history/genealogy" book. It is a well-researched history book. Stella, like her brother, writes about what she knows best, and that's what makes her writing good. Stella and I will be talking about "early days, education in a rural Texas Hill Country community." There's so much she can tell us about small Hill Country schools that darned few people still know anymore. L: Stella, I'll bet you were born in Mason county, weren't you? P: I sure was. The first Gipson to be born in Mason County. L: Care to tell me what year? P: 90...1901. L: 1901. Where did you finish high school? P: At Mason. The old grammar school, they called it. It still stands there. It's a...going to be a museum now. L: I've been there! What year did you finish high school? P: 1918. L: 1918. How many grades were you required to go through at that time in order to get a high school diploma? P: Eleven, I think. Now it's twelve, and I think then it was eleven. L: Well, I guess you lived with your family all during your school years. P: Uh huh...yes. L: Who were your family? POLK 3 P: [Going back to previous question]...Except the summer I spent at San Marcos. L: Okay; that was after you graduated. Who were your family? How many brothers and sisters did you have? P: Well, my family was Beck and Emma Gipson. My family came from Winnsboro, Texas, and my older sister, Jenny, was born in Winnsboro. L: Winnsboro. Your father was Beck, b-e-c-k? P: B-e-c-k. Beckton, of course, was his name. Beckton. That's where the son...uh, grandson...gets his name - Fred's boy. Well, my father contracted such serious arthritis, or let's call it rheumatic fever, I think they called it. And the doctor told him if he didn't get out of that climate around Winnsboro - you know how damp and all - he just couldn't live. My mother always dreamed that maybe someday she could go and live where they had hills. She longed for a place where they had lots of hills. So, we...they started out in that covered wagon. What else did they have in those days? And they stopped at Beaumont and stayed there a while because my grandparents - my maternal grandparents - were there. My sister, Bessie, was born there. L: That's the one sister, Bessie. P: Uh huh. No; Jenny, you see, was the first one. D: Okay. Jenny? P: Uh huh. L: And then Bessie... POLK 4 P: Bessie. L: And who was next? P: I would have been, but I hadn't gotten there yet. L: Okay. P: Then they came on and they stopped - almost stopped for good - at College Station. We've always wondered what our history would have been like. L: Well, you would have cheated us out of a lot of good books from Mason County, wouldn't you? P: [Laughter] And then we came on - he came on and strangely enough...I'm going to add this because it's a family history. Mama had a big rawhide trunk. She wanted to take something to her new neighbors. And she thought, "Well, why not pack a group of alligator eggs?" So she packed them in that big trunk. Well, I don't know how long it took them to get to Mason County because my daddy stopped and worked, sometimes, on the way. When they got to Mason County and got to where they could open up the trunk, it was full of baby alligators. [Laughter] L: Oh, my gosh! What a present to give your neighbors! Oh, man. So, you had, uh...when you got here, you were born, and later Fred. Were there any others between you and Fred? Or was Fred the baby of the crowd? P: Ethel was my...I lost her so early, in l936, we lost P: Ethel. L: So, Ethel was before you or after you? POLK 5 P: Ethel was born after I was. I was born in Mason, Ethel was born in Mason, Fred...all of them were born in Mason. That is, their home life was in Mason. L: So, altogether I've got five of you kids? P: Seven. L: Seven...who were the two I've missed? I've got Jenny and Bessie and you, and then Ethel and Fred. There's some in between? P: That's five. Cricket - or Christiana. L: Oh, Cricket I've met. And who else? P: Charles. He was the baby. L: Oh, Charles was the baby. I don't know why I had it in mind Fred was. Okay, we're going to talk about schools. Where did you first teach school? P: At Hilda. I had planned, when I came home from San Marcos that summer, I was going to enter the university. But time does strange things. That was in the first World War and they took very, very few women for anything then. And my brother-in-law was Lee Loeffler, L-O-E-F-F-L-E-R, and my sister, Jenny - the two of them were teaching at Hilda. L: Hilda is a little community, about twenty miles south of here? P: Uh huh. That's right. You know where it was. Well, Lee didn't want to go off to war unless I would consent to teach P: with Jenny. I didn't much want to. I wanted to go to the university. Well, I thought maybe I wouldn't pass the POLK 6 examinations. I had just come out of school, and it wasn't a bit of problem to pass those examinations. So, of course, I got it. I was sixteen years old when I started teaching there. Oh, my goodness. L: So, you had no time for college. You went right out of high school to teaching? How did you get certified to teach at the age of sixteen? P: They gave teachers' examinations. The...I guess you'd call it the...well, it would be the school board. Whatever you would call it, maybe you could call it. L: In Austin? P: Uh huh, in Austin. L: State Teachers'... P: They put out those examinations. They thought very few people could pass them, but...I have an idea they needed more teachers. I wasn't...that...wonderful. But Jenny had always taught the primary and Lee had taught the others. They were both - I don't know exactly about degrees and all, but they both had attended San Marcos Normal. And Jenny couldn't teach algebra because she had always taught those little ones. Well, Stella fell...well, she fell heir to algebra. It didn't bother me because I'd just come out of high school. It would bother me now. Well, I had three boys almost my age. One of them was a little older than I was. Do you want the story or P: not? L: Sure! Do I look like I'm going to sleep? POLK 7 P: No! I just wanted to know. Anyway, I had never given an examination or anything...and I had taught those little ones until I turned out in time for the boys to come for their algebra. And they were very polite, very nice boys. They could hardly get in those little desks, but they managed. Well, we had algebra. I thought I was a pretty good teacher. They knew...oh yes, they wrote their paper so nicely. But that's all they wrote! Finally, I gave a test. That was the first test I had ever given in my life, and I don't think I made it hard. But those boys sat there, politely, smiling. I said, "Boys, don't you know any of the answers?" They admitted they didn't. I'm ashamed to tell this - I helped them with their test. Oh! They were the most grateful boys you ever saw. The only thing that ruined it, I was dating one of those boys' older brother, and he spilled the beans. He said they were laughing all over the country about that little old teacher they had. They wouldn't have to study algebra now. She would...if they looked sad...she would help them. You have heard that old saying about...what is it? Heaven help the woman that...well, it's a... L: Something about...a woman scorned? P: A woman scorned. Well, I was a woman scorned. I really drilled them on that algebra. They were just so sweet and nice and polite. I put it on the board - that's what they P: used all those pretty blackboards for, then. And one of them made "5"; the other two couldn't pass anything. They just POLK 8 wrote their heading. I took up the papers. And I guess that's what comes of a...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. That's right! L: Okay. P: Well, Lee came back in the spring and, of course, he wanted back into his school. I had come to love those little pupils, and I didn't want to leave them, but I did. I left. Then I went to Fly Gap later that year. L: Before we leave Hilda, let me ask you a question. I would like to try to put this in perspective. You went there in 1918? P: Uh huh. L: I looked this up, and I find that's just barely seventy years after old John Meusebach had signed the Indian treaty - seventy years later. P: What was his name? L: John Meusebach. P: Oh, Meusebach. Yeah. That's right. L: This was seventy years after he had signed the treaty with the Indians to bring the Germans in here. P: That's exactly right. That goes in there. L: Was Mason County still pretty "German" in 1918? P: All German, that I knew. But, you see, my parents had come to that part of the Hill Country when it was hardly P: settled at all. And they were what they called "Anglos". The Germans were..."the German" part of Mason. Well you know, POLK 9 of course, it didn't go too well - two different sections. But anyway, you don't want to get into the Mason County War, I don't guess, although it had already happened, before my parents got there. They were through with it by then. All but the feelings. The feelings were there as long as I lived. When I wrote the Mason Pageant, they almost had the war again. So, they had me cut a lot of it out. [Laughter] L: When you taught at Hilda, did you live in that community - the Hilda community? P: Yes. My...Jenny's parents-in-law had a two-story building. Now, Germans at that time were living well. They had lived that long. They came in about '49. You see, that was 1918, and they had done well. Even a few of them had bought a few cars, but they couldn't drive them for the roads were so awful. So they put them up on blocks. And kept them. [Laughter] L: I was going to ask about that. How far was the two-story house where you lived from the schoolhouse? P: I imagine about a mile and a half. L: How did you get to school every day? P: You know...you know how it is when two people walk? L: Shank's mare? P: We walked. L: Did you have to cross any hills or mountains or rivers or L: creeks to get to school every day? POLK 10 P: We had to cross...right at...almost...just right at where they lived was Beaver Creek. A beautiful Beaver Creek, then. And I always thought, "That creek sings a song." Well, it didn't sing a song until I got through with those boys - teaching them algebra. But, after that, I felt so good about everything, I could just feel old Beaver Creek singing a song. Oh, it was a beautiful thing, then. L: [Laughter] Is Beaver Creek still running? I saw it, coming up here. P: It's still there. It has suffered from the drought. And what hurt me, when Lee died...Jenny and her children didn't quite agree on things, so they sold that. Their home. The home was just a German home, but that creek! They had a lot of that creek, but it didn't mean anything much to them. My son was a great pal of theirs, hers, and it just broke his heart when they sold out. He just loved Beaver Creek. It's still there. L: You've told me that the Germans were in that community, most of them were fairly well off. They had nice places. P: They had begun to. They had really suffered their suffering from coming across the ocean...and landing there. L: Did they have rock homes? P: Most of them had rock homes, or they had good homes. And their church house there is very nice now. And their cemetery where my sister, her husband, and the little baby girl are... L: Your sister, Jenny, is buried down there? POLK 11 P: What? L: Your sister, Jenny? P: Uh huh. L: I was gonna ask about transportation. You've said some of 'em had cars, but they were up on blocks. I guess that's because of the war and they couldn't get tires and gas? How'd they get around? P: Well, the roads were just so bad...they just mired down - the tires did. And they couldn't travel for the roads. It just rained and rained and rained, and they had no...they had no pavement. They didn't know what that was. No, that was the reason and, of course, they were very particular about their cars. They came in wagons, they came in buggies - to church. Or, they came in what they called hacks or surries. L: I'm familiar with those. How many children were in this first class in Hilda - the primaries that you were teaching? P: I don't think I had but two. L: Two? A boy and a girl? P: Two little girls...I want to say...were the first grade at Hilda. All I can remember. L: And then you had the algebra class with the bigger kids. P: Yes! But, no, they had the pastor's little boy. I know ...I remember him for this reason: I had...as I had the first grade, I asked them, "If you had a nickel or a dime, which would you give up and which would you keep?" And he gave me P:POLK 12 an answer that stumped me. He said, "Well, I'd give up my dime and keep the nickel." And I said, "Well, why?" "Well, now, I know they'd tell me that a dime was better, but a dime's just a little old thing and a nickel's pretty good-size money." L: And he was a first grader? P: He still wrote to me...a long time after that. He lived in Fredericksburg. He died, now. Well, and then...from then on, I can't remember now, but it was like first, second, third and fourth. But there wouldn't be but three or four pupils. L: In each grade, you mean? P: One was...I don't guess you've ever heard of him, but he was a famous lawyer, I mean a doctor, Elmer Wiederman. You wouldn't know anything about him. I think he's still alive, maybe. I believe he's in...I don't know...maybe Junction. I don't know. Anyway, I know that my husband and I were eating lunch at a cafeteria in Junction. Some little boy or girl just kept watching us. Finally, she came over there and she said, "Do you see my daddy back there?" Well, I happened to notice that was Dr. Elmer Wiederman. It was his little girl. Of course, he was really bragging to her about what a perfect student he was. She said, "Do you mind telling me," said, "was my Daddy that perfect?" And I said, "Well, you go back and tell your daddy that he couldn't spell." Oh, she was so happy! She went back there, and he waved at me. He got a kick out of that, of course. But, I wrote...Elmer wrote me P: quite some time. POLK 13 But I don't remember...I've lost track of him. But I kinda think he came to the Mason...when their graduation class had their celebration...I think he came then, so... L: In this community and the others...but right now, this one...where did you get your schoolbooks? Did each of the children have a schoolbook? P: Had to get what? L: A textbook. P: We had to buy our textbooks. L: Did each child have one or did the teacher have the only one? P: No. As a rule, we could manage some way to get the children...well now, some of them, they didn't have them all. I know Ranch Branch didn't have all the geographies and everything. L: What subjects was you teaching...I'm sorry, were you teaching these children at Hilda? What subjects did you actually teach? I mean, did you have it broken down into different classes? P: Well, yes. And the biggest problem that I faced...my little two first graders couldn't speak a word of English. L: What did they speak? P: German. Oh, you have no idea. Their churches were in German. I felt sorry for my sister. I said,"How can you stand it?" "Oh, I just listen to the songs and enjoy that; P:POLK 14 and, then, I plan the next week's work that I'm going to do. (Laughter) L: That's a good story. Did you have problems in l9l8 with children who came to school speaking German, like we had problems, and still do, with children who come to school speaking only Spanish? Were they forbidden to speak German in the schools? P: The trustees decided that they should not teach...uh, allow...any German in schools, for this reason...which wouldn't have affected the little ones...but they said those grown boys and all - knowing that the two teachers didn't know a word of German - that they could talk just as they wished to, and we had to stop that. L: Mischief! Can you recall what the school building in Hilda looked like? P: Yes, I think I can. I think it was mostly lumber. And I think, later on, it was made...I believe it was a mixture, now, of concrete and lumber. It's still down there. L: It's still there. This wasn't a true "one-room" school, because you taught part of the kids and your sister taught part. P: Yes, that was the only one-room school that the...apparently that ACS (sic) didn't seem to mind, because, you see, I opened school, then. I almost had to use that. L: You opened it? P: Well, what I mean, when I started teaching, I began P: there. ASCS...oh, not ASCS, goodnight nurse! They wanted POLK 15 "one-room" schools, you see. I taught other schools. I taught...I was principal over at Katemcy - two story, three- teacher school. It was a big school. Ninety-nine students. L: Two story, three-teacher...that was a big school. P: That's right. But, *they didn't want that, so I didn't use it. (Note: "they" refers to A&M Press, in recent book.) L: I'm sure that in l9l8 and in l992, the basic problems that schoolteachers face is still the same thing - how do you get that little brain to decide to learn? P: (Laughter) L: Do you recall, or can you think of any problems that were really unique to that school? That you wouldn't have today? P: You mean, in those little schools? L: Well, in this little school in the Hilda community. Was there anything there that was really unusual that you wouldn't find today? Other than the children speaking German. P: Well, I did something that I should have been fired for. Maybe you better put that. I couldn't stand to see those little children standing around smiling...didn't know a word of...it was awful! All day long, five days a week, [they] couldn't say a word because they didn't know anything but German. They could read beautifully, but they didn't know what they were reading. L: That still happens today, doesn't it? P: It does? L: Yes. POLK 16 P: Well, now...if you tell that on me now, I think it'll be all right. L: Okay. We're gonna put it in the paper, and we'll let somebody worry about it. P: I took those little children to the far end of the school ground...and I couldn't speak very well to them...but I made them understand we were going to have a playhouse. They brought their little stove, their doll and all, and I helped them line with rocks, and all, their playhouse. And it didn't show from the building. And I don't care whether I did right or wrong, the happiness on their faces was all I asked. They could talk German there, don't you see? L: You gave 'em a little place to go during their recess and lunch where they could talk German. P: Yes, uh huh. That's right. L: Well, I'm glad there are still teachers like you around, that care more about people than rules. P: One of those first graders is an old great-grandmother now. Sometimes she remembers me when she...used to write to me, I don't know. In time, it gets where they don't. Kids don't ever forget, and I don't ever forget. I remembered more things in Ranch Branch than any place, because I taught there six years. You see, at Hilda... L: How long were you at Hilda? That's a good question here. Were you there one year or two years? POLK 17 P: Where? L: At Hilda. P: I didn't finish the first year. You see, Hilda came back in the...I mean, Lee came back. L: You mean, he came back before the year was out? P: Oh, yes. L: And he took his job back? And you... P: He took his job back, and I went on. L: Where did you go from there? P: Now, I really did go on to spend a few months at Streeter - to finish out something - but, it was a two-teacher school, and I didn't teach long enough. Then I went to Fly Gap. L: Now, I've looked it up. That's two words, FLY GAP. Can you tell me where it got its name? That's got to interest somebody. P: They were...that was during the time when all the men were in the army. And the Indians were terrible, even at that time, of course. And, you see, when they took the men out of circulation, it was hard on the women and the little boys and all, in some places. And they would, they had a...they formed what was known as a...oh, I can't think, right now. It was...they formed an organization. Even the old men helped with that, too. To help prote