Naomi Tagawa interview

Abstract

1 >> Carlene Tinker: Good morning, Ms. Tagawa. My name is Carlene Tanigoshi Tinker, and I'm a volunteer from Fresno State's uh, Henry Madden Library. Specifically, the Special Collections Research Center. We're conducting oral histories of people who were in relocation camps during World War II [audio issues], and I know that you were in one as well. And um, first of all I want to say thank you for inviting me into your home today, which is located at 216 North Green Street in Hanford, California. Um, as you know, Dr. Howard Ono, whom you met recently is also a volunteer, and he's interested in people just like you, as I am, because both of us were in a relocation camp. It wasn't the same one as yours, but we were in the Granada Relocation Center in southeastern Colorado. And maybe you don't know it by that name. It was renamed Amache, because the nearby town—nearby town of Granada, and they pronounced it Grenada, was getting inundated flooded with over 7,000 letters a day. And so consequently they put pressure on the relocation center and said “we got to do something, so you need to rename it so we don't get your mail and we don't get yours.” Okay. So they -- some people decided that they would rename it after a prominent citizen of that area, and the prominent citizen they were thinking of was John Prowers. He was a cattle baron living in the area in the early 1900s, and they said, well "Okay, maybe we'll name the camp after his wife." And she died, I think, in 1905, but she was a Cheyenne Indian, and her name was Amache, that was her first name. So that's how she got or how the camp got named that and another interesting thing about Amache is that her father was a very prominent chief among the Cheyenne Indians, and he was killed in around, I think it was 1864 in the Sand Creek massacre, which happened about 50 miles west of Amache. And so she was lucky to have survived that massacre. So anyway, that's a little bit of history. >> Naomi Tagawa: What an interesting history. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Isn't it? >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So people say, well how in the world did it get named Amache? Well that's how it got its name. Yeah. So, anyway, Dr. Howard Ono and I were little kids in Amache, and because of our interest in camps, our personal histories we wanted to reach out to people like yourself and compare your experiences with ours. So that's why we're participating in this project. >> Naomi Tagawa: Thank you. Thank you so very much. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So before we begin, will you give me your full name? >> Naomi Tagawa: Naomi Tagawa is my full name. >> Carlene Tinker: Do you have a middle name? >> Naomi Tagawa: No, I do not. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Well that's interesting. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: What is your birth date?2 >> Naomi Tagawa: February 20, 1920. >> Carlene Tinker: So how old are you now? >> Naomi Tagawa: Ninety-seven. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, that's wonderful, that's wonderful. And where were you born? >> Naomi Tagawa: I was born in Hanford, California. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, so your parents were living here at the time? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And have you lived at this residence the longest? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Probably, okay. >>Naomi Tagawa:Yes >> Carlene Tinker: Because I think your dad built the house or had it built? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, because they worked for the Vendome Hotel in Hanford in the 1900s. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And they made enough money to buy the five lots for one gold coin, which is $600. >> Carlene Tinker: Isn't that amazing? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >>Carlene Tinker: In the 1900s, early 1900s? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh. >> Naomi Tagawa: And so then they built this, I had a two story building for a boardinghouse. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And mom cooked for five years, and she got tired, so then they went into the laundry business. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, that's how it became the laundry business, because your mom got tired? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. [brief laughter] >> Carlene Tinker: I don't blame her. [laughs] >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes.3 >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Let's see. Now, have you lived anywhere else besides Hanford? >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, in San Francisco when I went to school up there. >> Carlene Tinker: But that was only for short time? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. Just about a year or year and a half. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Now just an aside, I want to point out to our readers that Naomi has done an interview, a very detailed interview which is online in our collection as well from 1980. Do you remember giving that? >> Naomi Tagawa: I think so. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. >> Naomi Tagawa: I got to speak at the College of Sequoia for six years, because the professor there knew about all the Japanese and what happened. And so I spoke to her class for six different years, and then to the Pioneer School, the eighth grade history class I spoke to them too. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay, so that's probably how that interview came about and how it— I'm not sure how it got in the collection, but I found it. So a lot of this information that we're going over today is probably in that one as well. So we'll call today's interview Part Two. >> Naomi Tagawa: Okay. [brief laughter] >> Carlene Tinker: All right. Okay. Before we start on your own personal history, let's go into your background, your family background, your grandparents, your parents. Where did your grandparents live? Were they in—from Japan? >> Naomi Tagawa: They're from Japan. >> Carlene Tinker: Did they ever come here or was it just your -- >> Naomi Tagawa: No, no. I have never met them, my grandparents. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh. >> Naomi Tagawa: My father came over in 1900s from Japan to—through Seattle, Washington. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And then he worked on the railroads. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh. >> Naomi Tagawa: And then, but I wish I had asked him more questions, because I don't know how he got to Hanford. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, that, yeah. So that was going to be my next question, yeah. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. And then there were all single fellows at that time, and they didn't speak any English, but my father and two other fellows were raising chickens, and then, but dad 4 thought something was just not right. So he wrote to his brother in Japan to ask him to find a wife for him…bride. >> Carlene Tinker: How old was he at the time that he came? >> Naomi Tagawa: He was 25, I think. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, he was an older guy? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. >> Carlene Tinker: Was he a farmer in Japan or do you know what he did in Japan? >> Naomi Tagawa: No, I don't know. I wish I had, but he took a very good Jōruri—Jōruri singing for the bunraku… play, you know where they have the puppet? >> Carlene Tinker: Yes, yes, yes. >> Naomi Tagawa: So he took that and he said, “I wasn't that good, so I thought, no, I'll just come over. So he came over to work in the United States.” And then so he wanted a wife, and so he wrote to his brother in Japan and asked him. And she was from a farm family. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And she came over in 1907. >> Carlene Tinker: 1907, okay that was after the San Francisco Earthquake? >> Naomi Tagawa: Uh-huh. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, okay. Did she come from the same area that your father came from or do you know that? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, Kumamoto. You know the Kyushu [Southernmost island of Japan] . >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, but I never met my grandparents, but the first time I ever visited Japan was in 1980. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh! >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. And so I met— ah, my sister said, "Oh, I didn't get anything for your birthday." I said, "That's okay." And she said, "How about a trip to Japan?" And so, I said, "Ooh, yeah!" >> Carlene Tinker: [laughs] I'll take that. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. So I met some cousins there, and they took us around and he was very gracious. He owned about 11 service stations. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh wow.5 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: So they were quite well-off then. >> Naomi Tagawa: Well off. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. >> Naomi Tagawa: He drove us around, and he found out about our— his relatives that he didn't know that… >> Carlene Tinker: [laughs] He didn't know about, huh? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And likewise you didn't know much about them? >> Naomi Tagawa: That's right. >> Carlene Tinker: That's right. So that was in 1980 -- >> Naomi Tagawa: --‘80. first time. >> Carlene Tinker: -- you took that trip. Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And the second time was in 1990, because my brother-in-law was from Wakayama. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And his—he was going to take us with his daughter, my niece. And—But he passed away, but we went anyway. [background noise] And so to the Wakayama City. And his relative was a mayor -- >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: -- of Wakayama City. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And so they were very gracious to us and they took around. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay, Wakayama, is that a province of ken or is it a city? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. It's a city, Wakayama. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. I think my own -- one of my grandfathers came from there. >> Naomi Tagawa: I see. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. I think generally the first people who came to the United States were sort of from the same areas that were affected by taxes and depression. >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, I see.6 >> Carlene Tinker: That was my impression. >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, I'm—I’m not sure about that. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, yeah. So you said you went with your brother-in-law, was that Henry [Sugimoto]? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, Henry, but he passed away so in 1990. >> Carlene Tinker: Ooh. >> Naomi Tagawa: So his daughter and I went. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, he didn't physically -- >> Naomi Tagawa: No. >> Carlene Tinker: -- he didn't go with you. >> Naomi Tagawa: He didn't go, no. >> Carlene Tinker: His daughter went, okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And then his paintings of the camps he didn't know what to do with it, and his cousin said, "Bring them over here."— “So send them over here.” So it's in the library there. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, over there? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, in Wakayama. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh. >> Naomi Tagawa: And there's a big painting of New York City in the City—City Hall there. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, my gosh. I wonder if they're still there? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. I think so. >> Carlene Tinker: Wow. >> Naomi Tagawa: When we visited. His cousins drove us around everywhere. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, my gosh, okay. So getting back to your own father -- >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: -- and your mom. So they married in -- >> Naomi Tagawa: San Francisco. >> Carlene Tinker: -- San Francisco, and that was 1907? Is that when your mom came? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: And they got married right at -- was it like a picture bride type of thing?7 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. There's a wedding picture of them I have somewhere. [inaudible]. >>Carlene Tinker: I'll take a picture of that. Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: But he actually sent over there with a picture of himself, is that typical? >> Naomi Tagawa: No, No, he just wrote and so she was very tall for a Japanese and he's short. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh [laughs] >> Naomi Tagawa: And he--he was not very complimentary, [laughs] but he was very nice, you know. They got along very well. >> Carlene Tinker: What was your father's name? >> Naomi Tagawa: Sakutaro. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And your mom's name? >> Naomi Tagawa: Tazu. >> Carlene Tinker: Tazu? >> Naomi Tagawa: T-A-Z-U. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And what was her maiden name? >> Naomi Tagawa: I think it was Nishiyama. >> Carlene Tinker: Nishiyama. Okay. So they married around 1907. How many children did they have? >> Naomi Tagawa: Three. >> Carlene Tinker: Three. >> Naomi Tagawa: Girls, and my sister Susie was the oldest, 10 years older than me. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh. >> Naomi Tagawa: And Kikuya was the middle. She was born five years later, and but she died with diphtheria. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh my God. >> Naomi Tagawa: She was only about three years old I think. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, you know, during those times it was so hard to lose people. They didn't have the modern medicines that we have… >> Naomi Tagawa: That's right. >> Carlene Tinker: …Antibiotics specifically.8 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: So it sounds like your parents had children one—once every five years? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Because you came in 1920. >> Naomi Tagawa: 1920 [laughs] yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Now is your older sister still alive? >> Naomi Tagawa: No. >> Carlene Tinker: When did she die? That was Susie? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, I forgot. She died in New York City there. I forgot what year it was. She had breast cancer. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, okay. And probably before 2000? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. I kinda remember you saying that. Okay. After your parents married, did they, you know, they got married in San Francisco. How did they get to Hanford? Did they stay in San Francisco or did they come directly to Hanford? >> Naomi Tagawa: They came to Hanford, and they were working at the Vendome Hotel. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: And in the 1900s they were working there. >> Carlene Tinker: Is that hotel still here? >> Naomi Tagawa: No, it just burned recently, maybe three or four years ago. And they rebuilt that place, and they [Naomi’s parents] made enough money to have the two-story building built as a boardinghouse on Green Street. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, okay. Oh, just recently they did that? >> Naomi Tagawa: But the job was in 1911. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, okay. Oh, oh I see, I see. Okay I'm getting it mixed up with the current. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. >> Carlene Tinker: Incidentally, I didn't mention that we're doing this interview on Friday, August 18, 2017. Yeah. And we want to compare that with your previous interview.9 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. I see. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Okay, so your parents were working for this hotel, and then they were given some a lot. Is that right? And then -- >> Naomi Tagawa: They were paid and what they had they brought the property here. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And then the house was built and then the two-story building next door? >> Naomi Tagawa: The house, this house is built afterwards. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh. >> Naomi Tagawa: Because I had to go back and forth, because the kitchen and the dining room was in that building, in the two-story building, and so my niece and his—her father said we will help you. Would you please have kitchen put in this house. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. So that's how it was added on? >> Naomi Tagawa: Added on, yes. >> Carlene Tinker: What time—what year was that? Do you remember? >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, dear. I think there's a date on there, but I'm not sure exactly. But it was after we came back from camp— >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, okay. Okay, Naomi. We had a little break there. Just I think we were talking about your parents building this house after they were working for the hotel people, and they built this house as well as the two-story building next door, is that correct? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: And then later on because you didn't have a kitchen in the house. You had to go next door to the two-story building. Is that right? >> Naomi Tagawa: Actually this was built afterwards. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh! After it, okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Of the two-story building. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And the two-story building was a boardinghouse, and your mom cooked for everybody. >> Naomi Tagawa: Five years. >> Carlene Tinker: And how many borders did you have? >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, there were several of single fellows that used to work for different places, restaurants and – [audio issues] >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And so was it mostly men or all men?10 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah, men. >> Carlene Tinker: All men. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Okay. So what years would that be? Was that -- were you born yet? >> Naomi Tagawa: No. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And that, so after you were born, then mom got tired of being a cook? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: And then she decided not to work there anymore, right? >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh –-And then went into the laundry business. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Now did she work in the laundry as well? >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh, yes. Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. And what kind of services did they provide? >> Naomi Tagawa: It was hand laundry, so dad delivered a basketful of laundry for a family for a$1.50. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, my God. >> Naomi Tagawa: And then he delivered with a horse and buggy, and then next it was a model T Ford. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, for heaven sakes. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. And we were doing laundry [audio issues] for different various people who lived in the big homes here. >> Carlene Tinker: So it was mostly the people who were on the wealthy side who were able to -- >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: -- to afford the laundry service? >> Naomi Tagawa: Right. >> Carlene Tinker: So your dad delivered these things by horse and buggy, and then later by -- >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. A car. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. >> Naomi Tagawa: And then there were three ladies usually were hired to do the hand ironing. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, okay.11 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: So it was a fairly large business. >> Naomi Tagawa: There were Caucasian people who came to work. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay so your customers. What was his—What were his customers? Were they primarily Caucasian people? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, mostly. >> Carlene Tinker: Mostly, but also on the wealthy side? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, wealthy side, yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Would you consider your father's business a success? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. So he became a fairly successful businessman? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: And made a considerable amount of money? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. And I know he helped a lot of the different Japanese families that had a large family during the depression years. He was very kind to help them financially. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Now was your dad able to become a citizen and your mom became-- were they citizens? >> Naomi Tagawa: No, they were not able to become a citizen until after that we were incarcerated. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Why is that? Why—why couldn't they become a citizen. >> Naomi Tagawa: I really don't know, but I know that afterwards after we came back from camp, there were citizen—citizenship classes at nighttime, and I used to take them up to the high school where they were all given this, and then they were at the courthouse after 40 years they were given their citizenship. >> Carlene Tinker: Isn't that something. Now were both of them able to speak English as well as Japanese? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, yes they were. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Yeah. I imagine that was a very good asset, very helpful thing for your father, is that correct?12 >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. And then there were so many wonderful ladies from the First Presbyterian Church came and taught these single fellows English. They were so touched by their kindness that they were baptized as Christians. >> Carlene Tinker: Your parents were - >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Especially the four men, my father and Mr. Haas. I remember them, but I don't know who the other two were. >> Carlene Tinker: Is that right? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Until then were they Buddhists? >> Naomi Tagawa: They were Buddhists. Yeah. >> Carlene Tinker: So because of the kindness of these people who were Christians, they converted to Christianity? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. >> Naomi Tagawa: Yeah. >> Carlene Tinker: Would you consider yourself a Christian? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, I was raised, I was baptized by -- and we used to have a Japanese Presbyterian church here, and then ministers were from Japan and there were Presbyterian ministers. And— >>Carlene Tinker: So? >> Naomi Tagawa: --And so we had Sunday school and everything right on 7th Street here. >> Carlene Tinker: Is that right? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So would you say there were more Buddhists or more Christians at that time among the Japanese-Americans? >> Naomi Tagawa: I really don't know. But there were quite a few Buddhist people, and the Buddhist church was right next door to our -- >> Carlene Tinker: Your Christian church? >> Naomi Tagawa: -- the Japanese American, yes. The church.13 >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. I think right now someone told me there are very few Buddhist left, is that correct? >> Naomi Tagawa: Yes, very few. >> Carlene Tinker: Are there very many Japanese-Americans living in—in Hanford? >> Naomi Tagawa: Not very many. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. >> Naomi Tagawa: No. >> Carlene Tinker: What accounts for that, do you think? >> Naomi Tagawa: I think well a lot of the young people, they moved to cities for, you know, employment and all that. And there—and quite a few of them didn't come back to Hanford. >> Carlene Tinker: Oh, and I guess too a lot of them have intermarried. Is that true? >> Naomi Tagawa: I think so. >> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Yeah, I'm speaking for myself. [laughs] >> Naomi Tagawa: Oh yeah. That’s—That's right. >> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Now, how did your -- getting back to your dad being successful. I remember you saying something about financially they helped people in Japan. Is that true or am I remembering corr